Is it possible to maintain and respect cultural heritage and not be a racist

[Ravenshire]

Indeed, they are, so long as they are able to quaff a brew, shoot a gun, and shitpost.

Hey! I can do those things.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Indeed, they are, so long as they are able to quaff a brew, shoot a gun, and shitpost.

Hey! I can do those things.

'Sup, brotha?

[Brian37]

I could quote an artical either way on this topic, but I want to know what you think. In essence all cultural heritage is based in a xenophobic/tribal/assemble like pairs mentality. More so in mid and far eastern cultures. In essence a degree of racism is apart of the culture. So then is it wrong to honor culture over the pop culture idea of a race neutral soceity where everyone just comes together forgets their past and looks to built a milato future?

Honestly I do not understand what the big deal is. The more you harp and force cultural diversity, the more people will want to slink back to thier indivisual race/culture. Which again to me is ok so long as we are not killing each other. What is the big deal if a bunch of Mexicans get together and buy out every major dairy farm in North America, and then only want to hire Mexicans? Or if Koreans want to do the same with electronics or cars? Or if whites want to do the same with whatever's they want to do? Let them try and pander to the markets provided by their race and let's see how long they will last in a global economy. Why not let the dollar or euro decide? Let a man stand or fall on his own merit, rather entitle him to a place at the table because we are short a few members of his race.

Well the reason you cant see what the big deal is is simple. Evolution. We group as survival mechanism. But we get stuck in the period of time and only see what is local. We fail to see that we have the same common past and have always mixed.

There really is no such thing as "race". There are scientific terms for features that manifest in skin tone and facial shapes, hair color and eye color. But we still have the same common ancestors.

Race is a real issue in that humans use willingly and or unwittingly to set up social structures. It is very easy to justify harming others if you see someone else as less special or "other", but the truth is this behavior is simply a competitive aspect of our species.

Of course we should foster diversity, because that is literally how evolution works. If we only screwed family members our species wouldn't have evolved.

When I say protect diversity, I am not talking about clinging to bad claims. I am saying we cannot be afraid of mixing or challenging social norms. We look different worldwide precisely because of our species mixing throughout our entire species history.

[Drich]

So then is it wrong to honor culture over the pop culture idea of a race neutral soceity where everyone just comes together forgets their past and looks to built a milato future?

What makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?

because to build a tolerant soceity culturally exclusive practices will be done away with. which auguments said culture for the plain vanillia no one is offended soceity

---

Race and culture are not the same thing, and can easily be mutually exclusive.

At best your speaking to the exceptions and not the rule.

What is the definition of a "white" person?

someone with Areion/Anglo saxon blood line

Or better yet, what's the definition of a "black" person?

someone with a sub saharan african blood line

How about "Hispanic"?

I believe lation is the current goverment sponsered term.

http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/reic/definitions.asp

My culture as someone who would be considered "white" is nothing like that of a "white" person living in Rich Hill, Missouri (I just watched the documentary).

Your culture is of a anglo American, which is different from African american. Which is again different from Asian american or Anglo-italian or Asian-Korean.

What about someone from Haiti vs. someone from Zambia?

Same as above Race-then country of orgin defines one's particular role/culture in a given community.

You'd consider them both "black", probably, but what do their cultures have in common? Similarly, what race are Filipino people?

Philipino people are considered asian/pacific Islanders.

Like it or not carox, we are subdivided into race, and it is well documented, and supported by this goverment.

My question is, why arent we allowed to perserve our differences even if it offends others?

---

Drich, suppose I spend a year coming to your house on a daily basis, walking in your front door, taking a shit on your dining table, and then leaving. Not only is there no law against my doing this, there are actually laws that enable me, encourage me, and reward me for doing it. Astonishingly, there are also laws which not only prevent you from trying to stop me, but offer fines and imprisonment if you even complain about my actions.

At the end of the year, through the work of other people tired of having me shit all over their furniture, laws are enacted which not only make it a crime for me to continue with my behavior (prolly called something like, 'The Malicious Fecal Distribution Act') and require me to clean and disinfect your table, but also give you first crack and a discounted rate on cleaning supplies and bog rolls for the rest of your life.

THAT is why there are reserved seats at the table.

Boru

what you don't seem to understand and what you want to default to is the way things use to be where one race or culture was dominate over all others. I am asking why not allow those who want to subdivide into race/culture purity seekers do so?let those who want to co mingle do so and see what happens. rather than try and force everyone to get along.

In your instance, if you culture demanded that you poop on tables, then if their were enough of you in said culture you would want to move to a villiage or town were pooping on tables wasn't met with my culture's baseball bat to the face policy for table poopers. That way your people could poop on each other's tables without getting pummled everyday and we could both live the way we want.

---

I hate the idea that the past is worth clinging to. It is worth remembering as a history lesson, but it is not worth clinging to it if it props up bigotry, sexism and xenophobia. Words like "cultural" and "tradition" and "religion" are not looking forward, those are all excuses to cling to the past. What should be important to humanity is fostering civility, not protecting an ego.

what of those who do not want to be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past in every subsequent generation? Will they be made to live as you command?

[The Grand Nudger]

Is someone stopping you from "preserving your differences"? Doubtful. Preserve away, is your wife onboard...and which way are you taking it?
(guess we should get on that though - gonna have to order alot of brown shirts and armbands..I suppose, being the man and all..and by we I mean me, not you, clearly)

I still don't understand why you persist, you don't feel that every group needs to be included in these sorts of decisions....your group (consisting of just you, apparently), is one of those groups that can be comfortably excluded. Whats the problem?

Just to put in a kind word for you, it's remarkable, and I think commendable, how well you've assimilated into the mans culture in C. Florida, espousing those views which provide us with the most leverage despite being an obvious outsider yourself. Maybe we'll be able to find you a good job in the ghettos watching all the others? Don't worry, we take care of our pets (until we don't) and you can totally count on our word. If you ever feel uneasy about where I, the man, plan to take things...just take solace in the fact that all of your favorite radio programs will be available, and that barbed wire does not interfere with reception (in fact..it enhances it..just another way we're looking out for you). We will make -damned sure- that you receive your daily does of bigotry in the manner and through the media with which you are already familiar.

-yet another service that we provide.

[Brian37]

What makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?

because to build a tolerant soceity culturally exclusive practices will be done away with. which auguments said culture for the plain vanillia no one is offended soceity

---

Race and culture are not the same thing, and can easily be mutually exclusive.

At best your speaking to the exceptions and not the rule.

What is the definition of a "white" person?

someone with Areion/Anglo saxon blood line

Or better yet, what's the definition of a "black" person?

someone with a sub saharan african blood line

How about "Hispanic"?

I believe lation is the current goverment sponsered term.

http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/reic/definitions.asp

My culture as someone who would be considered "white" is nothing like that of a "white" person living in Rich Hill, Missouri (I just watched the documentary).

Your culture is of a anglo American, which is different from African american. Which is again different from Asian american or Anglo-italian or Asian-Korean.

What about someone from Haiti vs. someone from Zambia?

Same as above Race-then country of orgin defines one's particular role/culture in a given community.

You'd consider them both "black", probably, but what do their cultures have in common? Similarly, what race are Filipino people?

Philipino people are considered asian/pacific Islanders.

Like it or not carox, we are subdivided into race, and it is well documented, and supported by this goverment.

My question is, why arent we allowed to perserve our differences even if it offends others?

Why do we have to like it? Saying we observe something does not mean we should not work on problem solving. Glad blacks and women didn't think like you "Shit happens, so do nothing".

My question is, why arent we allowed to perserve our differences even if it offends others?

It has nothing to do with human rights. You have a right to be offensive and others have a right to call you out on it if it is harming others.

Preserve our differences? Yes lets just tell Arab women who don't like sexism "too bad, shit happens". Go ahead Isis, burn people alive because well "shit happens".

It is not about starting wars to create sudden change. It isn't about allowing, it is about challenging bad logic. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Tradition is not a good excuse to cling to something. If it were we could all make excuses to protect our own ideas. Without challenge to them we stagnate as a species.

[Anomalocaris]

I am saying that our species needs a reality check in that we are not a separate species.

I missed the part where someone argued that different races are different species.

A lot about Drich can be explained by two halves of his parentage not belonging to the same species.

[Nope]

Drich

because to build a tolerant soceity culturally exclusive practices will be done away with. which auguments said culture for the plain vanillia no one is offended soceity

What exactly are you asking, Drich? People do celebrate their cultural backgrounds without being racist. I could make up my own religion and start practicing its holidays if I want to do so. What I can't do is refuse to hire someone based on the color of their skin or their religious or sexual preferences. Can you give an example of which cultural practice would be done away with so that we can have this type of plain vanilla society that you describe?

My question is, why arent we allowed to perserve our differences even if it offends others?

How is anyone stopping you from being different? Of course, free speech means that others can criticize you also.

I am asking why not allow those who want to subdivide into race/culture purity seekers do so

If a group of white supremacist want to hang out only with other white supremacist they can do so but if they own a business than they have to follow federal guidlines for hiring people. They can't discriminate. As I said before, they won't be free of criticism either.

?let those who want to co mingle do so and see what happens. rather than try and force everyone to get along.

Please define the word, force

what of those who do not want to be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past in every subsequent generation? Will they be made to live as you command?

Can you give an example of what mistakes you don't want repeated?

[Drich]

So, I'm guessing you missed my point -- to wit, that her color is irrelevant to the build quality, meaning that the employer has no appeal to real-world issues in defending their hiring practices if such are racist.

for some this is absolutly true. For my FUBU example color of the manufacturer was the whole reason for the product.

What matters to me is that a non-bigot should not have to do research in order to avoid funding bigotry. What matters to me is that everyone in this country should have an equal opportunity to land a job.

Again if a manufacturer is making an effort to produce a ethenicly specific product I'm sure it would be included in their marketing.

If you don't want to hire black folk in your business, buy a Congressman and get done with it.

I don't have to hire black, blue, yellow, or even white 'folk' so long as my numbers do not exceed 15.

And you seem very comfortable with that approach.

what is wrong with that approach. I applauded their efforts till I found out they were outsourcing to china. I think it is ok to say here is a product specifically made by a people for a people, in an effort to support those people. Koreans do this all the time and so do other cultures. They seek to send money with in their communities first, and then out source if need be. I'm asking why can western culture also adopt this method?

Bullshit and applebutter. You cry at the first sight of resistance against your dear little faith, whining and moaning like a five-dollar whore.

I started my own business for that very reason. My orginal position (I had for almost 10 years) with the company I was with was given to a nephew of my direct supervisor. It was a good olde boys club, where friends and family had greater pull than time on the job and skill. Why else would a guy who only job experience was 3 years laying tile take the place of a 10 year employee?

So I quit and took an offer with another guy and started our own company together. two years after that I bought out my 1/2 the business and never looked back. The great irony in all of this was I actually hired the guy who they replace me with sometime later.

Yeah, you answered your own question, and aren't smart enough to realize it. In the Gilded Age of laissez-faire capitalism, we had racist hiring, child-labor abuse, events like the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. I'm a recovering libertarian, and I certainly agree that that government is best which governs least, but the fact is that as society gets more complex, least is necessarily a rising variable.

Youre right I did answer a question that I saw most of you would default to. then I said we do not live in that time anymore, and if we were to be allowed to go back to supporting our own racial/cultural tendancies I dont think we would return to that time where one race dominated all others.

I would think we would simply subdivide our cultures with in our cities. like in NY. where their is a China town, and a little seoul, and little itialy ect.. where people who want to do buisness with just their race would tend to stay on the inside of those boarders and those willing to deal with anyone would be on the outside or like now have their businesses anywhere.

I don't think you get it. But then again, you're on record advocating slavery as a good thing, so it's not like you're a terribly thoughtful person.

I don't think you understand the full concept of accepting modern slavery.
It's not a matter of killing the concept. Slavery is alive and well, more over your life, your mod cons, your food would not be possible if not for slavery. so again you directly benfit from it. What i advocate is the acknoweledgement of it so it can be regulated, and those in modern slavery can have the protection and benfit of govermental regulation and oversite.

To pretend slavery is the picture 12 years a slave drew is head in the sand foolishness.

For the record yes that slavery was bad, very bad, and that is why I say we need to stop pretending slavery no longer exists, because without oversite the 12 years a slave picture can grow unchecked just out of sight, in a product like sugar that is apart of everyone's everyday life.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson...avery.html

so tell me again sport, who "Doesn't get it?"

---

Drich, what is going on with you? Are you trying to offend people? Even for you this thread seems a bit over the top

I just see both side of the arguement.

When I was small I wanted to live as an american. So did my Father so we assimilated my mom's culture and made her and her parents change to fit a more 'normal' white american life style. while he never bocked at anything they did, he certainly did not support nor did he want us to be apart of anything completely korean once we were out of diapers.

My dad was a bit hippish, so nothing he did wasnt truly malicious, he just wanted to have a vanalla flavored household where no one or nothing was offensive to white people/americans. So alot (not all) of my mother's culture was abandoned.

Now in light of the selma thread, fergason and all the other racial tension over words and how people truly want to live ( No N*gg*rs in SAE or the other White power contraversy at some game or collage) why not just let that part of the population go and do what they want?

Who are any of we to say that those people and their race/cultural beliefs are wrong. How is that any different than what ISIS is doing?
We as a soceity need to understand that not everyone want to be vannilla.

---

Is someone stopping you from "preserving your differences"? Doubtful.

No, but in the example of the SAE farternity, that whole chapter was shut down for doing what they thought was the right thing to do appearently. Again right and wrong being subjective and based on their cultural norms.

Look, if those guys want an all white club house then why not let them have it? I certainly don't want someone in my club house who thinks I should not be a member, so why not let those people all assemble under one roof and just keep tabs on them?

Preserve away, is your wife onboard...and which way are you taking it?

Me I like vanallia that way i can sprinkle on different things when I want.. But again I understand not everyone wants that. some people only want choclate with Nuts. so why not let them be choclate with nuts?
They just got to understand the same thing. They can force me to have choclate with nuts if I dont want it, so the need to keep choclate with nuts contained in the choclate with nuts community.

(guess we should get on that though - gonna have to order alot of brown shirts and armbands..I suppose, being the man and all..and by we I mean me, not you, clearly)

My wife is of the blonde hair and blue eye variety, and she reminds me that after i start the revolution she will have to do her part and sell me out to the new gestapo.

I tell her like I'm telling you. I not looking for one race to dominate all others. I'm looking for a TRULY FREE soceity. One where volintary segergation is allowed if and when a given community wants it..

I still don't understand why you persist, you don't feel that every group needs to be included in these sorts of decisions....your group (consisting of just you, apparently), is one of those groups that can be comfortably excluded. Whats the problem?

Well me my cousins my sisters and Keanu Reeves

Just to put in a kind word for you, it's remarkable, and I think commendable, how well you've assimilated into the mans culture in C. Florida, espousing those views which provide us with the most leverage despite being an obvious outsider yourself.

Indeed. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to point out the obvious.

Maybe we'll be able to find you a good job in the ghettos watching all the others? Don't worry, we take care of our pets (until we don't) and you can totally count on our word. If you ever feel uneasy about where I, the man, plan to take things...just take solace in the fact that all of your favorite radio programs will be available, and that barbed wire does not interfere with reception (in fact..it enhances it..just another way we're looking out for you). We will make -damned sure- that you receive your daily does of bigotry in the manner and through the media with which you are already familiar.

-yet another service that we provide.

Again, maybe you don't quite grasp the idea that one race is to dominate another. Again what I'm looking to establish is a truly free soceity where if one want to not intermingle with those of other races they should not have to.

Obviously there are those of both the white and black communities that do not want anything to do with one another. so why force them to comingle?

[Nope]

Drich said

I just see both side of the arguement.

When I was small I wanted to live as an american. So did my Father so we assimilated my mom's culture and made her and her parents change to fit a more 'normal' white american life style. while he never bocked at anything they did, he certainly did not support nor did he want us to be apart of anything completely korean once we were out of diapers.

My dad was a bit hippish, so nothing he did wasnt truly malicious, he just wanted to have a vanalla flavored household where no one or nothing was offensive to white people/americans. So alot (not all) of my mother's culture was abandoned.

That was wrong of your dad. What kind of things from your mom's culture did your dad not want her to share with her children?