Pediatrician Refuses Treatment of Baby of Lesbian Parents

[Norman Humann]

Also, whatever happened to the Good Samaritan? Love thy neighbor? Hate the sin, love the sinner?

Having lost the argument, Norman wishes to change it into one about religion.

Not knowing how to respond, Heywood completely ignores my post.

What are you talking about? This IS about religion. Remember? The "religious freedom bill"? Refusing to treat patients based on religious beliefs?

And nice dodge again. So let me try this one last time: do you think a doctor refusing to treat a dying child is morally okay?

[Esquilax]

If there is a second doctor standing right there to serve the patient, why shouldn't the first have the right to refuse for any reason?

Because you don't get to pick and choose when you do your fucking job? By your logic that doctor could stand there and refuse to treat every patient ("for any reason") so long as there were other doctors there, and still expect to pick up a paycheck. Where are you drawing the line and why?

You just don't like their behavior and you want to force them to behave in a way you see fit.  You really don't care about individual rights or self determination.

You do this every time you participate in this discussion; you make these weak anemic little jabs at an argument, and then end on these wild, ridiculous accusations, like you can just shame people into submission by strawman, to cover for the utter inanity of your actual justifications. It's fucking pathetic and if you keep it up I will report you for trolling.

[Bad Wolf]

If there is a second doctor standing right there to serve the patient, why shouldn't the first have the right to refuse for any reason?

Basically what esquilax said, this is the job. Why should they get paid for not doing their job. Also, what if the second doctor refuses and the third and the fourth and the fifth? What happens when, lets say a really hated person like Hitler is in need of medical assistance or he will die. What happens when everybody refuses to treat him. He dies. Sure, he deserves it, but that isn't how our justice system works and it's a slippery slope.  Where do you draw the line?

[robvalue]

I used to be a teacher. I could have just refused to teach every lesson and still get paid. I wish I'd have known that! What a great system.

[vorlon13]

Um,

don't want to share too much, but in the 80s I needed medical attention and felt my being gay might have a bearing in the treatment/diagnosis (it's not what you're thinking, this occasion) and did 'come out' to the specialist.

I was still treated, but he was not a happy camper doing it, and everything turned out fine(medically), but it was a very tense time at the office, and for some reason, he took his hostility towards the situation (my impression, but maybe he was a jerk all the time) out on the nurse that was helping.

If a medical practitioner can't put aside his personal angle in regards to treatment, maybe it's best in a nonemergency situation to get a referral to a different physician.

Big picture would be for such individuals with incomplete takes on the Hippocratic Oath to perhaps look for another line of work.

A positive note:

I go to a dental college these days for dental work. The students are all required to treat prisoners as part of their training. I'd like to think that would weed out some problems. Hell, I have done contractor work on jail security systems, and even not being around the incarcerated made my skin crawl the whole time I was there. (part of the anxiety was by the necessity I had to have tools with me that would be dangerous for an inmate to have, and my fear of even a slight miscobobble with the security doors could get the wrong guy in proximity with me and things could go south real fast)

*disclaimer: I had a relative in the facility at the time, so my concerns were somewhat more real than speculative, if you catch my drift . . .

[Thumpalumpacus]

Nothing says "good-hearted" like punishing the child for the "sins" of the parents. What kind of asshole would do that?

Oh, wait.

The kind of asshole whose innate supercilious cruelty has been fortified by the cold black iron forged in the pitiless crucible of faith in some all powerful personal savior.

... and who is following the example set by that alleged saviour.

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So, let's see if I got this right...

You demand legal protection for your beliefs in disrespecting basic human rights and claim it is persecution to deny you the ability to actually persecute others? Well, if you're ok with that, then I guess you wouldn't have a problem if a doctor refused to treat your child because you are a christian.

I'm sorry, but if your religious beliefs demand that you infringe another person's freedom from discrimination, your beliefs do not deserve respect.

Suppose your child was dying and a doctor did not want to treat the child.  Would you put a gun up to the head of the doctor and force them to treat your child?  Would forcing the doctor to treat your child be morally okay?

No, but a lawsuit would be the least of that doctor's worries.

If the doctor doesn't want to treat minorities, the let them go into data processing, where their personal bigotry doesn't have wider ramifications.

---

Also, whatever happened to the Good Samaritan? Love thy neighbor? Hate the sin, love the sinner?

Having lost the argument, Norman wishes to change it into one about religion.

Not sure where you've been. The bigotry of this religious doctor is the crux of the matter under discussion.

[Brakeman]

I'd bet that the doctor has a business license that permitted him to do business in that county, I bet he had a tax ID a for both state and federal, I'd bet he has business, building, and fire insurance. I'd bet that he has a medical degree from a university. I'd bet that he is probably a member of the AMA and other associations. And lastly, I'd bet that he has lots of business dealings with several suppliers, utilities, and pharmaceutical companies that ALL CHOSE NOT TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST HIM, yet he feels that he should be allowed to discriminate on whatever grounds he chooses.

If only one out of twenty or so of the businesses he must deal with chose to discriminate against him, he would be out of business or at least very inconvenienced. If every business chose something to discriminate against, all commerce would cease. SO it is easy to see why for the common good the nation should not allow discrimination that does not benefit the common welfare.

[Desert Diva]

If I take a job at McDonald's, I don't get to then whine that I can't cook burgers because I'm a religious vegetarian. Likewise, if a doctor doesn't want to do his or her fucking job and take care of patients, all patients, he went into the wrong field.

[vorlon13]

Wonder what the doctor and his religious ethic would make of this ??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...Jesus.html

[Esquilax]

If I take a job at McDonald's, I don't get to then whine that I can't cook burgers because I'm a religious vegetarian.  Likewise, if a doctor doesn't want to do his or her fucking job and take care of patients, all patients, he went into the wrong field.

Don't you know? Everything should be allowed, if only you shout about religious liberties first!