Posts: 67293
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 8:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Seeing no reason that something -should not be- does not demonstrate that something -is-. I see no reason that my dick shouldn't be longer than Bob's dick........and yet it isn't.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 8:45 pm
The reason is genetics and random DNA combination.
Next?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 67293
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 8:46 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 8:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You get those "shoulds" from genetics? You -should- publish a paper on that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 9:03 pm
(June 18, 2015 at 8:21 pm)Iroscato Wrote: (June 18, 2015 at 8:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You don't have to be an expert in cosmology. The process which leads us to state that "all things must have a cause" or "stuff can't come from nothing" can only be held confidently to be true in this state of the universe, as it is, as we perceive it's interactions now. All of -that- only goes as far back as the big bang. Before the big bang there could have been different physics...there could have been different -logic-. Perhaps stuff -couldn't- come from nothing in a hypothetical "before the big bang" if that phrase even makes sense......but we have no way of knowing that, and the reverse could just as easily be true. It's not strong enough a statement to lead, inexorably, to truth.
Well said. I'm tempted to say the laws of physics are the same in any universe - but I don't because such knowledge is currently far beyond human understanding, and perhaps always will be, confined as we are to this single cosmos.
I think a good take away here is that at the end of the day, we are both taking a leap of faith. The answer to the origin of everything cannot be proven in any sort of way.
We can either believe that the laws of nature were different enough back then to allow for things to form from nothing at all, or we can believe that there is a supernatural element at play.
Neither can be proven, and neither fit within the confines of our human understanding.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 67293
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 9:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 9:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
No, we're not both doing "it". But it wouldn't matter if we were....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
......and I don't have to believe -anything- let alone either of those two choices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 9:18 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 9:18 pm by Whateverist.)
Glad to see you spreading it around the forums CL instead of just minding your own nest.
Personally I don't find the acceptance of a 'supernatural' category that easy to swallow. There is nothing I've ever encountered or read about which could be classed as other than natural. Can I 'prove' it? No, but I don't think that any alternatives are on the same footing where on the one side you can demonstrate a fit with reality as we know it and on the other is something entirely separate from everything we know and undetectable.
If gods exist I assume everything they can do would be by means comprehensible to them at least. Gods would possess a unified theory which renders what we call supernatural with everything else. Being unable to explain anything ourselves with our current understanding is not enough to rule out its being natural.
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 9:20 pm
(June 18, 2015 at 9:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The answer to the origin of everything cannot be proven in any sort of way.
We do not know that. We only know that we have not yet.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 18, 2015 at 9:38 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 9:38 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 18, 2015 at 9:18 pm)whateverist Wrote: Glad to see you spreading it around the forums CL instead of just minding your own nest.
What do you mean?
(June 18, 2015 at 9:20 pm)IATIA Wrote: (June 18, 2015 at 9:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The answer to the origin of everything cannot be proven in any sort of way.
We do not know that. We only know that we have not yet.
I agree.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 19, 2015 at 2:20 am
Even granting that we haven't yet solved the question of the origins of the Universe and maybe never will, the two options you cited (the laws of physics were different enough to allow causation vs it could have been a supernatural entity) are not equally valid. Everything we can observe in nature is caused by other things in nature. Leaping to the least plausible explanation before investigating far more plausible ones is not keeping an open mind to the possibilities; it's actually a definition of delusion (or if it's not, it ought to be). Especially when that explanation is rooted in fuzzy feelings flavoured by mythology written by superstitious people who thought rainbows were magic.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 20476
Threads: 447
Joined: June 16, 2014
Reputation:
111
RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 19, 2015 at 2:20 am
CL, most of us atheists don't believe in woo.
God is only one of millions of things which are silly and don't make sense.
Basically, you just have to use the "logic" filter and you'll already know what we do and don't believe in.
eg: no supernatural stuff, no ghosts, no unicorns, no demonic possessions, no angels,etc
Just boring everyday real world stuff ... sorry...
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
|
