The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[robvalue]

God: "I think I'll provide evidence, but make it look like a pile of horse shit which is indistinguishable from a book of fairy tales. I'll hide it amongst loads of other fairy tale books, and then start a rumour that one of the books is magic. I'll see who buys it."

[Chad32]

We don't know of any point in time when the universe had nothing in it, and the laws of physics we use to determine things were not available before the big bang. That doesn't mean you can stick a god in there, and that certainly doesn't mean it has to be your particular god. Saying we don't know, therefore god, solves nothing.

Yes, the basic rules of survival and morals have a lot of overlap, when a species needs a group to survive. A gazelle needs to be with its group, or it will die. Doing things like attacking everything aroudn it will leave it abandoned. therefore the basic need for survival necessitates some moral behavior.

There is no solid evidence for any specific god. If there was, people wouldn't be fighting over the issue for thousands of years. We would have reached a concensus by now. The best evidence you've given is as much evidence for Vishnu as it is for Yahweh, or any other god. Creation, morals, ect are too vague to get you any closer than deism, but you're not a deist.

He doesn't love anyone but himself. He created people to serve him, sentences them to be tortured by default, and the only way to convince him to not do it is swear undying servitude. That is not a healthy relationship by any stretch of the term. I will take responsibility for my own actions. I'm not afraid of doing that. It's what grown-ups do. They do not scapegoat innocent people.

I know a bit about the history of the bible. I know Yahweh was originally the canaanite version of Ares. A volcanic war god. I know about the council of Nicaea, where people got together to decide which books were canon, and which weren't. I know that originally Paul was talking about a spirit being when he talked about Jesus. Not some guy born of a virgin, who died on a cross ten years prior. I know that there's an archetype about people being born of virgins, dying on a hill, coming back from the dead, and performing miracles. Jesus wasn't the first, and there are even stories today of people performing miracles. I know that the bibles we have are copies of copies of copies, and even the originals would still be written by men who weren't names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I know that some of those gospels were based on others, and they couldn't get the story of Jesus' birth, death, or resurrection right.

he does not own everyone and everything. I don't know why anyone thinks that. So he created the world a long time ago. Round of applause for that. If he wanted servants to worship him, and never disobey, he did a shitty job. Even his repeated attempts to fix that have failed, but apparently he can't get that through his head.

So all you have said is man is not an authority on how it all started. Also you are right there was never just nothing there was God.

So How does DNA and mutation give us morals and survival instincts?

There is solid evidence for God you just refuse to recognize it.

Since you have set your mind to dislike Him you have choosen to see everything he does as hateful.

There may not be an original document but there are so many copies of the text that we have a good understanding of what the originals have said. The bible as an ancient text has more copies than any other ancient text. Also from the full documents they do have there are no doctrinal changes.

Your assertion that He doesn't own everything doesn't stop Him for owning everything. If you made something for yourself you would own it right so why is it suddenly wrong for God to own the thing He created? He wants us to obeyHhim freely that is why you are given an option. If you choose to worship yourself instead of God then you will become just like what you worship. Also, He isn't done fixing things He is  being patient waiting for people to repent.

Fine. In the beginning there was god. I'll convert to Hinduism as soon as I'm done celebrating the 4th of July.

That may be more cultural evolution than genetic evolution. I'm not a biologist. I just know that we have general rules for abiding within a group. Even though there is overlap between groups, like not killing or stealing, these rules don't always stay the same for people outside of the group. Therefore they are subjective. They change depending on who they are targeted against. Hence the different terms for killing and murder. Killing your brother is murder. Killing the stranger from the neighboring lands is just war.

Well do be sure to provide that solid evidence to the scientific community, get yourself a nobel prize, and work towards keeping god's followers from killing each other for interpretational differences.

I don't think everything he does is hateful. Just enough things that I think he has screwed priorities, a psychopathic personality at times, and isn't worthy of worship. In short, anyone who demands praise and worship is automatically unworthy of having it.

Have you ever watched movies about people building robots that can think for themselves? Notice how people who insist the free thinking robots are property tend to be considered the bad guys of the film? If I make a car, I own it. If I give it to someone, I'm not allowed to just take it back ten years down the road. If I have a child, and decide to kill it, I will go to jail. Even outside of a theocracy, where people think the child is alive because of a god, instead of because I had sex. Just because I create something, doesn't mean I get to do whatever I want with it at any time.

I'm glad he's done trying to fix things. Now if only he'd step down and let someone more competent be in charge, things might get better. I have noticed that more secular societies that prioritize more on equality than theocracy or just one guy being in charge, tend to do better in the world than others.

[Iroscato]

@Cato neither

CATO = REKT. FLAWLESS VICTORY.

[Dragonetti]

I guess if you were able to follow Jesus, would that mean you can walk on water, and change water to wine?

[Redbeard The Pink]

I guess if you were able to follow Jesus, would that mean you can walk on water, and change water to wine?

I do a pretty cool magic trick where I turn a bottle of plain drinking water into a bottle of mouthwash. You think I could snag some followers with that one? Would I need to do more than just a bottle? It'll kind of hurt portability if I have to lug around six stone earns big enough to hold a man's remains.

[Rekeisha]

When anyone talks about "evidence" for God, it needs to be something I could verify if I was standing right next to you. Personal testimony, philosophical arguments and ancient texts are not credible evidence.

I find it amusing that an atheist's power of denial is greater than god's ability to provide evidence for his very existence. It wasn't like that in the old days.

If God wanted us to know he exists, presumably he'd be able to do that. So that leaves the scenario that he's deliberately providing evidence so weak that it's possible to easily dismiss it. I can only conclude this is a test of critical thinking.

How would you define evidence and where are you getting your definition of the word?

[Longhorn]

Um. Reksy. That evidence you've been talking about.....like, where is it? Cos I ain't seen a single bit so far

[Chad32]

Apparently his evidence is creation, and morality. Something that could easily have come from one of the nicer creator gods.

[Rekeisha]

So all you have said is man is not an authority on how it all started. Also you are right there was never just nothing there was God.

So How does DNA and mutation give us morals and survival instincts?

There is solid evidence for God you just refuse to recognize it.

Since you have set your mind to dislike Him you have choosen to see everything he does as hateful.

There may not be an original document but there are so many copies of the text that we have a good understanding of what the originals have said. The bible as an ancient text has more copies than any other ancient text. Also from the full documents they do have there are no doctrinal changes.

Your assertion that He doesn't own everything doesn't stop Him for owning everything. If you made something for yourself you would own it right so why is it suddenly wrong for God to own the thing He created? He wants us to obeyHhim freely that is why you are given an option. If you choose to worship yourself instead of God then you will become just like what you worship. Also, He isn't done fixing things He is  being patient waiting for people to repent.

Fine. In the beginning there was god. I'll convert to Hinduism as soon as I'm done celebrating the 4th of July.

That may be more cultural evolution than genetic evolution. I'm not a biologist. I just know that we have general rules for abiding within a group. Even though there is overlap between groups, like not killing or stealing, these rules don't always stay the same for people outside of the group. Therefore they are subjective. They change depending on who they are targeted against. Hence the different terms for killing and murder. Killing your brother is murder. Killing the stranger from the neighboring lands is just war.

Well do be sure to provide that solid evidence to the scientific community, get yourself a nobel prize, and work towards keeping god's followers from killing each other for interpretational differences.

I don't think everything he does is hateful. Just enough things that I think he has screwed priorities, a psychopathic personality at times, and isn't worthy of worship. In short, anyone who demands praise and worship is automatically unworthy of having it.

Have you ever watched movies about people building robots that can think for themselves? Notice how people who insist the free thinking robots are property tend to be considered the bad guys of the film? If I make a car, I own it. If I give it to someone, I'm not allowed to just take it back ten years down the road. If I have a child, and decide to kill it, I will go to jail. Even outside of a theocracy, where people think the child is alive because of a god, instead of because I had sex. Just because I create something, doesn't mean I get to do whatever I want with it at any time.

I'm glad he's done trying to fix things. Now if only he'd step down and let someone more competent be in charge, things might get better. I have noticed that more secular societies that prioritize more on equality than theocracy or just one guy being in charge, tend to do better in the world than others.

So are you saying that there are no basic morals?

The definition of science is the knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation. Therefore any discussion of God goes beyond the realm of science.

I try not to base reality from fiction

People were meant to praise and worship. You may not worship God but you worship something. People are made to breath air we can get in the water but we will die if we try to breath it. As with God when we worship anything else we die because we were made to worship Him. That is how we work.

Who do you propose would be better to govern people than God?

[Lek]

I guess if you were able to follow Jesus, would that mean you can walk on water, and change water to wine?

I do a pretty cool magic trick where I turn a bottle of plain drinking water into a bottle of mouthwash. You think I could snag some followers with that one? Would I need to do more than just a bottle? It'll kind of hurt portability if I have to lug around six stone earns big enough to hold a man's remains.

If you could do that , you would have my attention.