The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Chad32]

What does being able to use magic have to do with morals, anyway? Ok I can't poof something into existence. So what? I haven't seen anyone else do it. I, with a woman, can say today we will make a baby. Then make it happen. Babies don't get made without a man and woman having sex. except for many stories about virgin births that wouldn't happen in modern day. Film every woman on the planet, 24/7, and I guarantee you none of them will get pregnant on their own. Nor will we see Humans popping into existence out of nothing.

Yes, we have something in us that tells us the basic rules for the survival of a group. That's called evolution, brought on by the fact that we're a social species. It's easily explained by natural means, without the need to say Vishnu wrote it on our hearts.

I can safely claim there's most likely no god, due to having no solid evidence for it, and the fact that everything we've ever had an explanation for has been explained through natural means. It's an educated guess that doesn't require us to know everything about everything. You have no right to tell me I should live my life by a book written by people who claimed divine inspiration. Even that's not even accurate, because we have no original copies of the books. 

You want to say morals are absolute, yet we have a word for unlawful killing. Murder. the fact that we need a word to separate lawful and unlawful killing shows you that ending another person's life is not objectively wrong. It goes back to Yahweh saying killing and stealing are wrong, then orders his followers to kill people in a neighboring tribe and steal their stuff.

If you are afraid of a post being too long, you can feel free to respond to me in one post, and someone else in a separate one. Double posting is usually discouraged in forums, but there is a word limit for posts.

[Rekeisha]

Since nothing in this universe has the power to produce anything without some kind of substance that shows that the first causer was not in the universe.

Basic rules of survival and morals are not not the same. Not having clean available water does not make you evil polluting water or diverting water from those in need that is morally wrong.

How do mutations or changes in DNA give us basic morals, survival skills and make us social?

You do not safely claim there is not God and because the evidence isn't to your liking doesn't make it disappear. Plus, guessing has never required knowing anything.

I have a responsibility to tell you that even though you hate Him He loves you. So He willingly died for your sins but you must repent and accept Him as Lord and Savior. This way you will be given an knew heart and mind as well as the Holy Spirit to help you live as you should. If you do not then you will not receive mercy but just and clear cut judgment for the sins you committed great and small. Seen and unseen. No government or societal rules/ideas can trump the command by God. He is the supreme ruler.

Do you even know the history of how the bible came together and has been sustained? God can take care of His word and l like I have stated before the only reason I believe the bible is because I believe God. I meet God before I could even read even though there was little to none of bible reading or church attending in my family.

God said that murder was wrong not killing and God owns everything and everyone. He unlike us is the originator of all knowledge, understanding and wisdom. He lives outside of time and knows when things need to be removed or planted for the betterment of human kind. He is also merciful enough to allow people to have knowledge of Him even if they reject it.

Also like I have stated before you know there is a moral law because we all know that there is a way that life should be lived and even though we go about it in different ways does not change the fact that we know this. The need for everyone to eat and drink is absolute but we do it in different ways. Some ways kill us and some benefit us.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

^^ no

[Chad32]

Since nothing in this universe has the power to produce anything without some kind of substance that shows that the first causer was not in the universe.

Basic rules of survival and morals are not not the same. Not having clean available water does not make you evil polluting water or diverting water from those in need that is morally wrong.

How do mutations or changes in DNA give us basic morals, survival skills and make us social?

You do not safely claim there is not God and because the evidence isn't to your liking doesn't make it disappear. Plus, guessing has never required knowing anything.

I have a responsibility to tell you that even though you hate Him He loves you. So He willingly died for your sins but you must repent and accept Him as Lord and Savior. This way you will be given an knew heart and mind as well as the Holy Spirit to help you live as you should. If you do not then you will not receive mercy but just and clear cut judgment for the sins you committed great and small. Seen and unseen. No government or societal rules/ideas can trump the command by God. He is the supreme ruler.

Do you even know the history of how the bible came together and has been sustained? God can take care of His word and l like I have stated before the only reason I believe the bible is because I believe God. I meet God before I could even read even though there was little to none of bible reading or church attending in my family.

God said that murder was wrong not killing and God owns everything and everyone. He unlike us is the originator of all knowledge, understanding and wisdom. He lives outside of time and knows when things need to be removed or planted for the betterment of human kind. He is also merciful enough to allow people to have knowledge of Him even if they reject it.

Also like I have stated before you know there is a moral law because we all know that there is a way that life should be lived and even though we go about it in different ways does not change the fact that we know this. The need for everyone to eat and drink is absolute but we do it in different ways. Some ways kill us and some benefit us.

We don't know of any point in time when the universe had nothing in it, and the laws of physics we use to determine things were not available before the big bang. That doesn't mean you can stick a god in there, and that certainly doesn't mean it has to be your particular god. Saying we don't know, therefore god, solves nothing.

Yes, the basic rules of survival and morals have a lot of overlap, when a species needs a group to survive. A gazelle needs to be with its group, or it will die. Doing things like attacking everything aroudn it will leave it abandoned. therefore the basic need for survival necessitates some moral behavior.

There is no solid evidence for any specific god. If there was, people wouldn't be fighting over the issue for thousands of years. We would have reached a concensus by now. The best evidence you've given is as much evidence for Vishnu as it is for Yahweh, or any other god. Creation, morals, ect are too vague to get you any closer than deism, but you're not a deist.

He doesn't love anyone but himself. He created people to serve him, sentences them to be tortured by default, and the only way to convince him to not do it is swear undying servitude. That is not a healthy relationship by any stretch of the term. I will take responsibility for my own actions. I'm not afraid of doing that. It's what grown-ups do. They do not scapegoat innocent people.

I know a bit about the history of the bible. I know Yahweh was originally the canaanite version of Ares. A volcanic war god. I know about the council of Nicaea, where people got together to decide which books were canon, and which weren't. I know that originally Paul was talking about a spirit being when he talked about Jesus. Not some guy born of a virgin, who died on a cross ten years prior. I know that there's an archetype about people being born of virgins, dying on a hill, coming back from the dead, and performing miracles. Jesus wasn't the first, and there are even stories today of people performing miracles. I know that the bibles we have are copies of copies of copies, and even the originals would still be written by men who weren't names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I know that some of those gospels were based on others, and they couldn't get the story of Jesus' birth, death, or resurrection right.

he does not own everyone and everything. I don't know why anyone thinks that. So he created the world a long time ago. Round of applause for that. If he wanted servants to worship him, and never disobey, he did a shitty job. Even his repeated attempts to fix that have failed, but apparently he can't get that through his head.

[Longhorn]

Since nothing in this universe has the power to produce anything without some kind of substance that shows that the first causer was not in the universe.

That's not demonstrable.

So you'll just go full on Kalam? That doesn't solve anything, only gives you +1 thing to account for. Infinite regress is a bitch, huh

[Redbeard The Pink]

Since nothing in this universe has the power to produce anything without some kind of substance that shows that the first causer was not in the universe.

That's not demonstrable.

So you'll just go full on Kalam? That doesn't solve anything, only gives you +1 thing to account for. Infinite regress is a bitch, huh

Gotta love that Cosmological Argument bullshit, right? They start with one decent premise (stuff exists), and then go on to build a series of premises that are each less sound than the last, ending with "The uncaused cause must be God." Theists love to stuff important-sounding words into a sentence and then put it out there is if it's some kind of unassailable truth.

[Chad32]

And not just a vague deistic god. Christians want to think if any god exists, it's their god. Also possibly their interpretation of their god. And he owns us like property, for some reason.

[robvalue]

1. Something can't come from nothing
2. Therefor Jesus watches me in the shower

[Longhorn]

Gotta love that Cosmological Argument bullshit, right? They start with one decent premise (stuff exists), and then go on to build a series of premises that are each less sound than the last, ending with "The uncaused cause must be God." Theists love to stuff important-sounding words into a sentence and then put it out there is if it's some kind of unassailable truth.

Yea, not to mention begging the question right off the bat, so the argument is doomed to special pleading and nonsense from the start

[robvalue]

Rationalizations.

I need to write a big ponsy post about it. These half-baked arguments such as Kalam and all its dirty relatives aren't the reason people believe, in my opinion. This is evidenced by the fact that logically ripping them apart has absolutely no impact on the person with the belief.