RE: Problems with Christian Church
August 24, 2015 at 5:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 24, 2015 at 6:01 pm by Randy Carson.)
(August 23, 2015 at 3:25 am)robvalue Wrote: God was sitting right outside the town after haggling with Lot about how many people he should save.
(August 23, 2015 at 9:34 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Have you ever actually picked up a bible and read the story?
(August 24, 2015 at 12:00 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: I have, and by his account I'd say he has, too. The story of Sodom is a prime example of what arbitrarily cruel morality your Gaud has.[/color]
(August 24, 2015 at 3:27 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah, I've read the story. What is the problem with my analysis?
![[Image: wink.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=forums.catholic.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fwink.gif)
The reason I asked, gentlemen, is that God was not "haggling" with Lot...it was Abraham who was pleading with God not to destroy the city.
Genesis 18:16-33
16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[c] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”
“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
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One other point, gentlemen: God did not set a trap for the men of Sodom and Gomorrah; he heard the outcry against these men (v. 20) and decided to act.
But outcry from whom, gentlemen? People who knew the depravity of Sodom and Gomorrah perhaps?
Who was calling out to God for justice? Victims of their sexual abuse maybe?
If the men of Sodom and Gomorrah had been Catholic priests who had molested people, you would be delighted that God avenged their victims by destroying them, but because these men were homosexuals, you seek to defend them, and you call God a monster for giving justice to those who had been raped by them.
