RE: Problems with Christian Church
August 29, 2015 at 9:19 am
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2015 at 9:24 am by Randy Carson.)
(August 28, 2015 at 8:49 pm)abaris Wrote:(August 28, 2015 at 8:42 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Church believed that Jesus was God from the beginning. No vote was necessary on that.
Which, again, is pure assumption based on single source credulity. The divinity of Jesus wasn't declared before the first council of Nicea in 325 and the council of Constantinople in 381 when the holy spirit entered the arena. It also leaves out all the non trinitarian views such as Arianism, Adoptionism, Monarchianism, and Subordinationism that existed before and afterwards.
I even found you an Ehrman quote from your favorite book
Quote:That the earliest Christians did not consider Jesus God is not a controversial point among scholars. Apart from fundamentalists and very conservative evangelicals, scholars are unified in thinking that the view that Jesus was God was a later development within Christian circles.
Check your sources, damn it.
The Divinity of Jesus Christ Proved from Scripture
I. Did Jesus claim to be God?
1. Jesus claimed the Divine Name (‘I AM’)
Exodus 3:14
13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
John 8:58
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
Why did the Jews want to stone Jesus if they did not believe that He was claiming to be God?
2. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and equal to God.
John 5:18
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
3. Jesus claimed to be the First and the Last – a Title Reserved for God Alone
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me.”
Revelation 1:17-18
“Do not be afraid; I [Jesus] am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”
Would a mere prophet claim to be the “First and the Last”?
4. Jesus claimed to be Truth – not just to proclaim the truth.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
5. Jesus claimed to share in Divine Glory
In the Old Testament, we find that Yahweh will not share his glory with anyone.
Isaiah 42:8
“I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another.” (Cf. Isaiah 48:11—“My glory I will not give to another.”)
Yet Jesus claimed, not only that he would be glorified with the Father, but that he had glory with the Father before the world was created!
John 17:5
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
How can anyone see this as anything other than a claim to deity?
6. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and the Son of God Before the Sanhedrin
Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Daniel prophesied that the Son of Man would be worshiped as God.
Mark 14:61-65
61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death.
Replying to the High Priest at His trial before the Sanhedrin, Jesus quoted the Daniel and applied this prophecy to Himself.
II. Did Jesus act as God might act?
1. Jesus forgave sins – which only God can do.
Luke 5:20
2. Jesus accepted worship.
Matthew 2:2, 11
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 28:9, 17
Luke 24:52
John 9:35-38
3. Jesus did not reject worship.
Revelation 19:10 – the angel tells John to worship God only; Jesus never tells anyone not to worship Him.
III. Did Jesus’ disciples believe He was God?
1. Thomas worshipped Jesus
John 20:28-29
2. John declared that Jesus is God.
John 1:1, John 1:14
3. Paul taught that Jesus was God.
Romans 10:9-13
because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord (kurios) and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved. The scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. For, “every one who calls upon the name of the Lord (kurios) will be saved.”
In verse 13, Paul quotes an Old Testament prophet who was speaking about God when he wrote:
Joel 2:32
“And it shall come to pass that all who call upon the name of the LORD (kurios) shall be delivered”
Thus, in one brief passage, Paul uses the word kurios, or Lord, to speak about both the Father and the Son proving that Paul believes that Jesus is God.
4. The author of Hebrews clearly shows that the Son of God is God.
Hebrews 1:1-9
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
IV. Did Jesus’ enemies believe He claimed to be God?
1. The Jews tried to stone him for blasphemy.
John 8:58 – “I AM’
John 10:30-33 – second attempted stoning
2. The Sanhedrin asked Jesus if He was the Messiah and the Son of God
Mark 14:61-62 (cf. Daniel 7:13-14, Psalm 110)
V. Did the demons recognize Him as God?
Mark 1:23-24
23 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out, 24 “What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”
VI. Does the Bible tell us that Jesus is God?
Acts 20:28 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you guardians, to feed the church of the Lord which he obtained with his own blood.
Titus 2:13 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1:1 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
8 But of the Son he says, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.
