(September 29, 2015 at 4:37 pm)Godschild Wrote:(September 29, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Godschild wrote:
I take it very personally when someone says Hitler was a Christian doing what Christians believe is right, when only a few and very few Christians believed that the Jews were bad for mankind before the theory of natural selection. There were more Christians who believed this after the theory of natural selection, wrongly believing, the Bible never calls for such a thing and the NT actually teaches otherwise. So we have supposed Christians and people like Hitler using the theory for their own agenda, falsely using it I might add, so both sides of this Hitler thing should be denouncing Hitler for what he was, an evil murderer finding false excuses to justify his delusion.
GC
With regard to the part of your quote I bolded, are you serious?!? Have you ever read anything about European history? News flash: Christian anti-Semitism and Christian persecution of Jews was alive and well long before the 19th Century. Long before! Don't lay that shit at Darwin's feet. Hell, to take but one of myriad examples one could mention, Martin Luther was a foaming-at-the-mouth Jew hater of the first order. There are passages in his works that wouldn't have been at all out of place in Mein Kampf.
I take it very personally when someone piously whitewashes history to make his religion look better than it really was. Mass killings, pogroms, forced conversions, theft of property, mob actions (and most of it blessed by the religious leaders of the day) . . . the list goes on and on and lasted for centuries before Charles Darwin was a twinkle in his father's eye. But you think it took the theory of natural selection to bring things to a head? Get real.
I didn't whitewash anything, you read into my statement what you wanted to see just to extend an argument, what a small childish thing for you to do. I actually eliminated Darwin from Hitler's deluded ideas and brought supposed Christians into the realm of guilt, but only a blind bigoted idiot couldn't see what was written. I'm fully aware of past Christian atrocities as well as the atrocities of atheist and other religious groups, actually the whole of mankind, like the Bible says no one is good not one.
GC
Bullshit. Here's the part of your post where you "brought supposed Christians into the realm of guilt" (whatever that means):
I'm not going to say that Hitler didn't get some of his ideas from Christians who believed falsely that the Jewish race was a blight on the world, I'm sure he did, these wrong ideas had been going around for a long time, (even some of the early reformers had these ideas), throughout America, Europe, Russia.
So these ideas that "had been going around for a long time" were false ideas? Like the idea that Jews were Christ killers and their descendants shared in that blood guilt? I know it's PC these days for Christians to distance themselves from that point of view, but there were many generations of Christians who took Matthew 27:25 and John's many digs at "The Jews" more seriously than you do. Who are you to say they got it "wrong" or were un-Christian in taking seriously their own scripture?
In my first response to you, I (childish, blind bigot that I am) bolded a claim that you haven't even remotely backed up. A very few Christians prior to the 19th Century believed the Jews were a blight on humanity? Remember that bit? History says otherwise. You claim you are aware of the atrocities committed, but you want to play the No True Scotsman card to absolve your religion of those same atrocities. Those were "mistakes" . . . "misunderstandings". What natural selection provided the real bigots was the veneer of "scientific" respectability, provided they didn't try too hard to actually understand the theory. But the impetus to exclude, marginalize, oppress, and kill Jews was there long before anyone had heard of natural selection, and it was religiously motivated.
On a side note, there are American Christians today who will thump their chests and bray to anyone who will listen about what great friends they are of the Jews generally and Israel in particular. Of course, many of these same "good" Christians are such fans of Israel because they believe prophesies that Israel figures centrally in the Second Coming drama they can't wait to see happen -- the same drama in which all but a relative handful of the Jews are wiped out. With friends like that . . .
I suppose they got it wrong too?
