Strict gun control in france.

[The Grand Nudger]

A not-too-outlandish scenario:

I break into your home while you're there with your family (you can't stop me, your guns are all locked away).  I immediately shoot one of your kids dead, then I grab another one and tell you to give me all your guns or I'll kill this child as well.

Option One:  You love your child, so you give me your guns.

Option Two:  You love your guns and gun safety more than your child, so you refuse.

Boru

You don't think that's outlandish.......really?  I explain some (but not all) of the steps a person can take to secure their firearms...and also that stolen firearms are irrelevant when it comes to our gun problem.....and you imagine a random hostage taking scenario in rural america as a way to double down?  

Firstly, having my guns at-the-ready isn't going to help me in that scenario, because I'm not going to shoot at someone who has my kid.  It would be an exceedingly bad idea.  Secondly, they can fucking have my guns...I -just- got through explaining to you, that they are inoperative.  The strangest bit..is that in your situation...the intruder -already- has a gun............  Wtf is this silly bullshit Boru? Let me get this straight. Man with a gun, knows I have lots of guns...but also that I won;t shoot him with my lots of guns, gets into my house unnoticed and grabs one of my kids, demands my guns...then knows how to circumvent every step I;ve taken. Criminal, mastermind....not your average B and E'er...I don't know what else to say. He went through an awful lot of needless trouble and risk for some rifles he could have purchased on a whim at one of any number of gunshops, pawn shops, and p2p swaps.

Regardless of whether the gun is stolen or not, you are still funding a massive industry with a vested interest in removing gun controls that can and does lobby the government. The more money they have the more effectively they can lobby the government.

As you're funding a massive industry with a vested interest in removing all sensibility, dealing more death than gun manufacturers..every time you put sugar in your tea.  I'm only forced to make these ridiculous comparisons because your criticism is ridiculous in the first place.  I don't give a shit about their business interests.  We legislate against business interests all the time.  It would hardly be something new and radical.  Everytime someone pops up the NRA bit I wonder why they feel that they can establish the guilt of firearm manufacturers by acquaintance.  The people who make guns insist at every turn that we secure them and operate them safely...and some of that probably has to do with them also manufacturing the trigger locks, bolt guards, muzzle assemblies, hammer keys, safety mechanisms................  

If you're ever in my neck of the woods, I'd love to take you on a tour of the Winchester arms plant, not but 10 minutes from me.  Somehow, who knows how, despite the fact that we make the guns right here...the place isn't a warzone. I want you to see the people who -actually- make guns.  I'd like to see you levy your suspicians against a guy named Joe who works in a factory producing a quality product....who prides himself on the safety of that product.  It's easy...when they're a nameless faceless monolith painted as some sort of Bond villain.  It's much more difficult to maintain these comments you've made when faced with the reality behind any of them.  

What other country is so obsessed with a single subject? There are more gun threads started on forums with Americans than threads about cars, sex, computers or video games.

That right there tells you that America has a problem with guns in one form or another.

I doubt that you'll be able to even begin to back that up.  But so what if we did start more threads on guns.....we're obsessed with our rights.  No ones squawking about taking my car away because someone else drives drunk, no ones squawking about castrating me because someone else is a rapist, no one has suggested that my electronics should be illegal because someone else is an identity theif.

I am still confused as to why Americans are so obsessed with their guns. It's been a few days now and I still can't think of another country so obsessed with a single subject.

But if you are not arguing that gun ownership is a defence against the erosion of civil liberties as you later stated, then you must be saying that your rights to own and play with guns as a hobby are being infringed. Unless there is some other reason that you need to use a handgun?

I don't own a handgun, and I don't think anyone needs a gun for anything - as I've already said.  Yes....whenever someone suggests that guns should be made illegal, someone is suggesting that my rights should be infringed.  Someone is also suggesting that the government should legislate against yours truly despite the fact that I am not nor will ever be a part of our gun problem.  That's a bit of an issue for me.

This would strike me as a first world problem, except that no other first world countries have America's gun problem.

Do you deny that if stricter gun controls were to be brought in that the gun industry would not be so profitable? There would be fewer guns, bullets and accessories manufactured. Do you deny that gun industry uses its profits to lobby your government?

They would adjust their prices to compensate. The erosion of rights and liberty is by no means a first world problem.  This message was paid for by Citizens For A Better Appraisal Of Reality.

So what you are arguing is that you are prepared to live in a society where violence can be more easily and effectively carried out so that you can enjoy playing with your guns?

I won't trade freedom for a sense of false security, no.  That's how we got the patriot act.  Is that so strange?  There is no causal relationship between stricter gun laws and a reduction in crime.  Criminals don't need guns to be effective, and laws banning or restricting guns don't stop them from acquiring them in the first place.  If you'll recall..."somehow" a quarter of all homocide in france is gun related.  

If you argue that you need a handgun for self defence rather than just as a hobby, then your argument about them not being stolen becomes void because to be useful they first need to be assembled and carried. And if your society is so violent that you need a gun for self defence then you need reduce the proliferation of guns, not encourage it.

Except that I -don't- argue that, nor do I keep any of my firearms for self defence... the US isn't as violent a society as people think it is...and it's getting less violent with each passing year even as guns proliferate.  I live at the end of a quiet country road in a county that has more guns than most armies can muster, minutes away from a factory that makes guns.....and yet, you don't see much homocide round these parts, gun related or not. Incorporate those facts into your worldview, shill.  

You do seem like a responsible gun owner and I can understand you wanting more gun control. The fact is that America does have a massive and chronic gun problem. In another country, like Germany for example, there would be no problem with you continuing to enjoy your guns. But there are other hobbies with far lower costs to others in society.

Yes, we do have a gun problem, and that gun problem is not gun ownership, or the existence of guns, and my hobby has -no cost-....get that through your shilling skull...-no cost-, to society.  The continued existence of our gun problem has to do with the existence of shills like yourself who block and prevent any and all effective gun control on the one hand...while wasting our time and resources pursuing ineffective gun control on the other.  They do this, not..I think, out of malice....but because their ideas of our gun problem and effective solutions are based upon fantasy, fed to them by actors with a vested interest....which seemed to be important to you at the beginning of this post.

We have excellent statutes that we do not enforce, shitty ones that we do....and have created an overall environment where it seems to make more sense, to the denizens of our urban areas, to pick up a gun than to pick up a trade. This, is our gun problem.