RE: help me understand this OT and NT stuff
December 28, 2015 at 4:08 am
(This post was last modified: December 28, 2015 at 4:16 am by robvalue.)
This is the way I look at it, based in my experience. Not every theist is this way, but a substantial amount have shown this trend.
Most of the time, religion is a mirror. People accept the parts of their religious text that support how they want things to be, and find reasons why the rest of it doesn't apply. (The excuses are many and varied, and in my opinion entirely unconvincing.) So what they are left with is a reflection of themselves. They are then amazed how "all their morality comes from the bible/Quran/Jamie Oliver's cookery book". Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful people find reasons to dismiss the vile parts of their religion. Keep on doing it.
This couldn't more obvious than with the character of "Jesus". When I hear people describe him, it appears to be just an idealised version of themselves. It's what they aspire to be like. However, to end up with such a view of Jesus, you have to cherry pick as I described. For anyone who has actually read the NT and not just focused on the nice bits that they heard about and liked, you'll find out Jesus is far from perfect. He is also (in my opinion) sometimes crazy, immoral, incites violence and gives terrible advice. Personally I think he's an amalgamation of at least two characters, as he appears to have a split personality. If you mention any of this, just like if you bring up OT atrocities, it is often dismissed instantly with an excuse and then forgotten. Jesus also said the whole of the OT still applies, yes many Christians seem to think he said you can just forget most of the OT.
Religion doesn't do anything on its own, it's just a serious of oral myths, often focused on a book. People then make of it whatever they want. Depending on the level of indoctrination that they experience though, they may have little say in how they "interpret" it. For many people, breaking free of the myths and the interpetations of those myths jammed into their head as a child before they have learned how to think is extremely difficult. The mind is incredibly good at throwing up mental defences to any attempt to challenge its status quo, especially concerning long term beliefs. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, and I have to analyse my responses very carefully to make sure I'm using logic and not emotion.
Indoctrination is the saddest part, because it can warp the mirror I mentioned above. Someone who freely walks into religion will likely end up with a clear mirror. But someone who has had certain prejudices programmed into them may then end up with a clouded mirror, containing nasty things that they otherwise wouldn't have thought. This is one of the big problems with religion. Good people will do good things, religious or not. Bad people will do bad things. But religion can get good people to do bad things.
Most of the time, religion is a mirror. People accept the parts of their religious text that support how they want things to be, and find reasons why the rest of it doesn't apply. (The excuses are many and varied, and in my opinion entirely unconvincing.) So what they are left with is a reflection of themselves. They are then amazed how "all their morality comes from the bible/Quran/Jamie Oliver's cookery book". Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful people find reasons to dismiss the vile parts of their religion. Keep on doing it.
This couldn't more obvious than with the character of "Jesus". When I hear people describe him, it appears to be just an idealised version of themselves. It's what they aspire to be like. However, to end up with such a view of Jesus, you have to cherry pick as I described. For anyone who has actually read the NT and not just focused on the nice bits that they heard about and liked, you'll find out Jesus is far from perfect. He is also (in my opinion) sometimes crazy, immoral, incites violence and gives terrible advice. Personally I think he's an amalgamation of at least two characters, as he appears to have a split personality. If you mention any of this, just like if you bring up OT atrocities, it is often dismissed instantly with an excuse and then forgotten. Jesus also said the whole of the OT still applies, yes many Christians seem to think he said you can just forget most of the OT.
Religion doesn't do anything on its own, it's just a serious of oral myths, often focused on a book. People then make of it whatever they want. Depending on the level of indoctrination that they experience though, they may have little say in how they "interpret" it. For many people, breaking free of the myths and the interpetations of those myths jammed into their head as a child before they have learned how to think is extremely difficult. The mind is incredibly good at throwing up mental defences to any attempt to challenge its status quo, especially concerning long term beliefs. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, and I have to analyse my responses very carefully to make sure I'm using logic and not emotion.
Indoctrination is the saddest part, because it can warp the mirror I mentioned above. Someone who freely walks into religion will likely end up with a clear mirror. But someone who has had certain prejudices programmed into them may then end up with a clouded mirror, containing nasty things that they otherwise wouldn't have thought. This is one of the big problems with religion. Good people will do good things, religious or not. Bad people will do bad things. But religion can get good people to do bad things.
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Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum