RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 1:06 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2016 at 1:08 pm by Mystic.)
(January 10, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Jenny A Wrote:(January 10, 2016 at 12:35 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Theist1 was suppose to me when I first came here. I use to say I believe for reasons that I can only justify to myself and can't prove God. I even had a thread once saying "all logic tells me God doesn't exist but my heart says otherwise".
Theist2 is me having a little courage to find arguments and believe in them and present them.
Theist3 is me coming to religion.
I said Theist but I really meant me. The theist/atheist dialogue phases I been through.
But you are right, if it was a general implication, then it's unfair...a lot Theists here come with not much to dialogue and are rude.
But in all honesty.......I want a sincere dialogue over this issue. And my impression, is over all been this.
The problem for me is this: I don't mind theists who simply believe provided that they don't injure others with the practice of those beliefs. But if a theist insists on attempting to prove god there are two possible responses. One is to be patronizingly accepting: that's nice, good play with your toys. The other is to engage the argument which means explaining why what you have isn't proof.
Perhaps we could discuss what current benefits you get from beleif? I don't mean miracles or afterlife or other things you can't demonstrate, but ways, if any, that belief makes your life better.
The thing is Quran begins with describing the first characteristic of the those who guard (the mutaqeen), they believe in the unseen. If the path was not unseen, if humanity doesn't have any unseen station or path to traverse, if there was not unseen to journey in and witness, it would be a useless religion. Our humanistic values are good enough to live by and function in the material world.
So from a materialistic viewpoint, there is no reason. And if there is no promised Guide and leader that is alive today, then it's whole movement towards defeating oppression through Quran and love of the family of Mohammad, ceases to have reality.
It is only the catalyst towards justice through faith in the unseen Imam Mahdi. And it's only a useful path through believe in the unseen journey and it's guidance through that.
Salah without unseen and connection to it, is an empty ritual.
It only works if there is unseen, and you won't see any benefit without perception that human has unseen reality, and there is unseen world which you have forms in, and your states (actions) form part of that reality.
