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Morality versus afterlife
RE: Morality versus afterlife
(February 3, 2016 at 4:08 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Utilitarianism is logically inconsistent.  Utilitarianism determines the moral truth value of a given action based solely upon whether or not the action maximizes well-being, and well-being is ultimately subject to an individual's opinions and preferences.  Therefore the foundation or origin of morality within the utilitarian framework is subjective.  The foundation of utilitarian morality is at it's essence one single moral rule:  Do what maximizes well-being.  Any action concurring with this rule is moral, and any action contradicting the rule is immoral.  Functioning within utilitarianism however, requires applying the moral rule universally and thus subjecting every individual to it.  Therein lies the inconsistency.  If something is applied universally it is no longer subject to an individual's feelings or opinions and is therefore no longer subjective.  This is a category mistake.  Because utilitarianism derives it's moral truth values subjectively but functions objectively it makes a category mistake.  Therefore, because utilitarianism is logically inconsistent it should be rejected as an explanation of the ontology of morality.
Moral utilitarianism will not become what you wish for it to be no matter how many times you pitch this straw. Moral utilitarianism, like all moral systems (including your own) have strengths and weaknesses. Thy all have problems. You, however, have consistently failed to identify those problems in -any- case...either the problems of a competing moral system, or the problems of your own. For all the world, you appear to be completely incapable of engaging in a discussion regarding this subject by any means other than constant reassertion of your religious beliefs and an unwavering refusal to accept those corrections others give you regarding their own positions, or even those things that 2 minutes spent with google would iron out for you.
Quote:So what about God?  Isn't He a person?
No?

Quote: Isn't His asserted morality subjective in that His morality is derived from His personal feelings or opinions? 
Technically it's derived from your feelings and opinions, but let's run with it.....

Quote:If God is a person and He determines morality then isn't morality subjective after all?
It would be, if god were a person, but he isn't. In the absence of that we have only you, a person, -purporting- to inform us of the morality of a god.


Quote:Is the Christian moral framework logically inconsistent as well?  
Not on those grounds, nope. The logical inconsistencies of a christian moral framework have nothing to do with it;s claimed objectivity. Rational people don't factor fairy tales into their assessments of competing moral systems.

Quote:These are common objections that demand an answer.  In Christianity, the moral truth value of a given action is determined not by God's personal feelings or opinions but by His inherent nature.  This is why Christians can consistently claim that morality is objective.  Morality is determined as an extension or expression of God's eternal nature, it is not determined by His personal feelings or opinions.  Therefore it is by definition objective.  From our perspective, it is also objective in that it is determined outside of mankind's personal feelings, tastes, or opinions and is therefore universally applicable to us. 
Christians can claim alot of things.  We know that you claim things, but let me suggest that this bag is already filled to the brim and really wouldn't stand to profit from yet another addition.  Where you have trouble, is demonstration.......  

Quote:Between utilitarianism, autonomy, and Christianity, only Christianity can provide a logically consistent framework of morality, and thus a reasonable ontology of morality.
.....case in point.  Big claim, no demonstration thereof. You wasted alot of words to play out your own internal arguments, I think. -Any- moral systems can be made to be logically consistent. It's a simple matter of definition. You and I both would take a look at many those shitty systems, and their shitty definitions...and say "I'll pass". You desperately wish for there to be a need for your religious horseshit..some place to plug it into your life. Some place where there's simply no alternative. There isn't.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Messages In This Thread
Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by abaris - January 6, 2016 at 1:24 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 1:26 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by abaris - January 6, 2016 at 1:29 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Excited Penguin - January 23, 2016 at 8:11 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 1:36 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 6, 2016 at 1:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by brewer - January 6, 2016 at 2:17 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 6, 2016 at 3:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 7, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 7, 2016 at 9:28 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 8, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 8, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Excited Penguin - January 23, 2016 at 8:22 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 3:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Jenny A - January 7, 2016 at 1:52 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 7, 2016 at 5:24 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 7, 2016 at 1:34 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by TrueChristian - January 8, 2016 at 4:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 8, 2016 at 4:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 8, 2016 at 5:39 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 3:29 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 9, 2016 at 7:28 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 9, 2016 at 5:44 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 1:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 2:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 2:57 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Simon Moon - January 9, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 9, 2016 at 4:43 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Simon Moon - January 10, 2016 at 2:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 11, 2016 at 2:29 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 11, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 3:45 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 3:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 3:47 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 9, 2016 at 3:49 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 4:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 7:05 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 9, 2016 at 6:22 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 10, 2016 at 1:46 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 10, 2016 at 9:40 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 10, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 10, 2016 at 10:36 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 12, 2016 at 12:06 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 10, 2016 at 10:41 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 10, 2016 at 12:43 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 11, 2016 at 4:18 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 11, 2016 at 5:36 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 11, 2016 at 5:41 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 10:39 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 11, 2016 at 11:01 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by miaharun - January 11, 2016 at 12:53 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 1:05 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by miaharun - January 11, 2016 at 1:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 5:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 5:53 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 12, 2016 at 12:53 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 19, 2016 at 11:53 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 12, 2016 at 4:04 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 20, 2016 at 12:43 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 14, 2016 at 5:44 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 15, 2016 at 6:12 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 14, 2016 at 5:47 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 15, 2016 at 6:48 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 16, 2016 at 11:12 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 15, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Divinity - January 15, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 15, 2016 at 12:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlif - by robvalue - January 15, 2016 at 12:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 15, 2016 at 11:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 16, 2016 at 4:30 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 11:00 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 16, 2016 at 3:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 9:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 16, 2016 at 9:14 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 10:02 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 17, 2016 at 12:41 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 17, 2016 at 3:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 17, 2016 at 3:25 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 17, 2016 at 8:45 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Pat Mustard - January 18, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 20, 2016 at 2:02 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 1:23 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 16, 2016 at 7:51 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 11:07 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 1:31 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 3:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 11:53 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 1:51 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 19, 2016 at 11:03 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 16, 2016 at 12:34 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 12:39 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 16, 2016 at 12:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 12:42 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 3:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 8:59 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 3:50 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by KevinM1 - January 16, 2016 at 4:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 9:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 17, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 17, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 17, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ApeNotKillApe - January 17, 2016 at 5:31 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 17, 2016 at 5:32 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ApeNotKillApe - January 17, 2016 at 5:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Reforged - January 20, 2016 at 12:10 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 2:00 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 20, 2016 at 2:44 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 20, 2016 at 10:01 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Drich - January 20, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 20, 2016 at 3:28 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Pat Mustard - January 21, 2016 at 3:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Drich - January 22, 2016 at 11:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by SofaKingHigh - January 22, 2016 at 12:22 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Drich - January 22, 2016 at 1:59 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 22, 2016 at 7:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by SofaKingHigh - January 25, 2016 at 5:37 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Angrboda - January 26, 2016 at 12:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 20, 2016 at 9:50 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 21, 2016 at 3:44 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 3:56 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 21, 2016 at 4:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 31, 2016 at 5:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Esquilax - January 31, 2016 at 7:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 31, 2016 at 8:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Esquilax - February 1, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 22, 2016 at 7:16 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 23, 2016 at 6:36 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 26, 2016 at 2:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - February 1, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 1:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 5:19 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 9:03 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 1, 2016 at 9:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 9:42 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 1, 2016 at 9:50 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 2, 2016 at 1:53 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 2, 2016 at 10:55 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - February 28, 2016 at 7:18 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - February 3, 2016 at 4:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 8, 2016 at 4:11 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - February 6, 2016 at 9:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 7, 2016 at 5:11 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - February 7, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2016 at 11:00 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 8, 2016 at 12:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 29, 2016 at 11:34 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - March 1, 2016 at 5:02 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - March 8, 2016 at 12:06 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - March 8, 2016 at 5:54 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - March 13, 2016 at 6:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by John V - March 10, 2016 at 7:28 am

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