(March 31, 2016 at 8:27 am)Drich Wrote:(March 29, 2016 at 10:54 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Everything in science is data. That's all it is. We have no data on god. No mathematical measurements, gravitational waves, no radio waves, no video, no audio, no nothing.
Sure we do. Science has simply reclassified them as something else. According to the bible All of creation is 'data' on God. Science (which again can be manipulated) says the opposite is true. Yet never explains why. Why must God and science be an either or?
After all if God did indeed create the known universe, then would He has not put in place all the different 'things' we are receiving data from?
Science has done nothing of the sort. Science has no position on God or gods or goddesses or any other magical (supernatural) thing, because it deals only with what is demonstrable in the natural world.
We certainly understand your position, which is that if God is the Creator of the Universe, then it follows that everything is "data on God". The problem with that position is that we have no actual data to show that God is the cause of any of it, only a bunch of philosophical arguments which suggest that such is the case... and just as many which say the opposite.
What she means is that we have no hard evidence that demonstrates any "magical" cause, and we no longer have a reason to think there is such a thing, except for those who belong to religions which state such things in their scriptures. Science is methodologically looking for the natural causes of things, and using that method to demonstrate why such-and-such happens. Humans like to attribute anything they can't understand to "the gods". Once, we thought that Thor caused the sound of thunder... now, we know that it's air being rapidly superheated by the pulsing of electron flow to and from the gound, and causing a reverberating shock wave.
Science cannot be manipulated because it's a method. It can be improperly followed by individual researchers, but that's what Peer Review is for, and why we continue to investigate every theory through repeated testing to ensure the best accuracy humans can manage. For "science" to manipulate data as you're suggesting, there would have to be some conspiracy of scientists worldwide (in countries which compete with one another in every way) who were all on a "Crusade" (forgive the use of the word) to do so. For the reasons stated above, this is simply impossible. That fact becomes particularly obvious if you realize that a large percentage of scientists are religious, many of them Christian... as you yourself pointed out when listing famous Catholic scientists.
As Xenophanes put it, "Men create gods in their own image. [...] If cattle and horses, or lions, had hands, or were able to draw with their feet and produce the works which men do, horses would draw the forms of gods like horses, and cattle like cattle, and they would make the gods' bodies the same shape as their own."
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.