(May 20, 2016 at 5:58 pm)AAA Wrote: So we need to prove that the designer exists before we can say it may have been designed? That's illogical. There are people searching for evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. Do they have to prove that aliens exist before we can interpret a radio transmission showing a sequence of prime numbers as having an intelligent cause? NO.
It is only a God of the gap if you assume that your answer is correct and thus has the gaps to be filled. When you say that I have no proof that the designer exists, why can't I just say you are arguing from materialism of the gaps?
Why is it my responsibility to show that mutation and natural selection are inadequate? Shouldn't it be their responsibility to prove that it is adequate?
Please explain why design is magic? Did the person who designed your laptop use magic? I sort of doubt it.
Yes, you do need to say a designer exists before you can say it may have been designed. It's illogical to say design without designer. If you have evidence of design, which cannot even potentially be explained by natural processes, then you might be on to something. If you have evidence of a process by which DNA could be tampered with by an outside intelligence, you might have deisgn (in the sense that you mean it). How you might demonstrate those, I haven't the foggiest.
You're positing a phenomenon which has never been observed in nature, but which does seem to exist in the imaginations of humans, rather like elves do. The difference between my "materialism of the gaps" (as you call it) and your idea is that every single thing we once thought was magical turned out to have a natural explanation, and we have not one single reason to suppose that non-natural explanations for natural phenomena will be discovered. That's why I keep calling your concept "magic".
We do prove that mutation changes a gene pool over each generation (along with some statistical factors, like genetic drift), and that Natural Selection has the effect of altering the direction of that change by favoring some changes over others, with each new generation.
There is nothing anywhere to suggest that these natural processes are "inadequate", except in the desperate wishes of those who want to think that some Intelligence (typically God or some other Higher Power) has done something to create us, rather than admitting we are the processes of random changes and nonrandom selection.
Like any other scientific phenomenon, even if you are correct in your assertions (I highly doubt it, but you might be), then you need to provide evidence that the phenomenon you're describing even occurs before even one person takes you seriously on the subject. Appeals to "looks like" and other "common sense" concepts are usually wrong.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.