(May 23, 2016 at 8:06 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(May 23, 2016 at 5:47 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: From the description in the bible, Yeshua would not have been crucified. The "crimes" he committed were ones under Jewish sanhedric (religious) law, not under Roman state law (disturbing the peace in the temple, going around preaching without the equivalent of a licence were sanhedric crimes not Roman ones), and also, Iudea was not part of Rome proper, but a client state, at that stage. Sanhedric law didn't perscribe crucifixion as a death penalty but either hanging or stoning, and as Roman law wasn't involved the Roman state wouldn't have punished Yeshua.
Assuming that Yeshua was a real person, it is far more likely he wasn't killed (at least in the way described in the bible, and to be killed by jewish religious authorities is problematic for a putative messiah) and just disappeared into the mists. The crucifixion is then inserted into the stories of the cult growing around Saul of Tarsus to embiggen its supposed founder.
Yes, the Romans pioneered federalism, and so, Judea was somewhat independent but the "sovereign power" was Rome. And, they could crucify anyone whom the Empire deemed to be a threat to the Roman peace; as Jesus was not a Roman citizen, he did not enjoy the same rights under Roman law. Likely, the story about him causing trouble in the Jewish temple was enough to get him arrested, and instead of a good flogging, some Jewish leaders likely convinced their Roman superiors to make an example out of him, which the Romans were all too happy to do.
Why would Pilate intervene in an internal religious matter in a potentially destabilising way? According to the bible Jesus wasn't a threat to Roman overlordship in Iudea, so therefore his heterodoxy from judaism was unlikely to be acted upon.
Thinking about the situaion I have three possibilities (assuming Jesus was real and a preacher), 1) he was the leader of a jewish messianic cult, and like later jewish messiah figures (eg bar Kochkba) was planning on overthrowing Roman overlordship and erecting a temporal theocracy centred round him (as per propesy). Thus the real Yeshua had no connection to Jesus apart from the name.
2) The gospels transferred punishment from the Sanhedrin to Pilate, because at that stage jesusism hadn't fully broken with judaism and wanted to appeal to jews still. This reading would be consistent with the bible if we accepred Jesus' divinity, miracle working and teachings.
3) Jesus was killed by neither group because he was either not real or not important enough to kill. And later christianity created a martyrdom for proselyisation purposes. Remember god figures who resurrected was a common trope in the Mediterranian world at the time, and jesusism would probably wat their god to at least match competing gods in the miracle stakes.
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