My goodness! I had forgotten the persecution issue was a sensitive issue for atheists, and care is needed in how things are said.
There was no systematic persecution of the first few generations of the Early Church. However (and there is a difference) it was still very dangerous to be a Xian, up to and including death. I explained why this was the case in my previous post, and I would ask you please to reread that. The theory there is backed up by the evidence.
To review the cases I put forward:
The NT accounts, treated with care like other historical documents, are consistent and clear. Paul's personal experiences in his letters were particularly eye-watering. We are looking at multiple attestation of sources and forms, more than enough to secure what I said, alone.
AD 64 was a very bad year to be a Xian: http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/christians.htm
Every proper historian I looked at said James was killed, but it's irrelevant. That he was sentenced to be stoned makes the point very clearly that bad things were happening to Xians.
And to requote your Pliny “if they are denounced and proved guilty [of being Xians], they are to be punished”.
Jehanne:
I didn't discount the BVM appearances- I said “dunno” which means “Don't know”.
Paul's 'Jesus voice' was heard by his companions, and I don't think scales on eyes are a symptom of epilepsy.
The integrity of text of the Gospels is remarkable by comparison to other ancient texts. This would need a thread of its own, but for example with Caesar's Gallic War, there are only 10 good MSS and the oldest is 900 years after Caesar. By contrast, there are just under 6000 NT manuscripts, with copies of most of the NT dating from just 100 years or so after its writing.
On the Matthew 'zombie' risings; I did say that any answer would have to be long. I distrust and dislike trying to compress a lengthy, detailed, nuanced answer into a couple of lines. So I won't.
In the ancient world, religious persecutions were political ones.
We seem to have moved on from the OP of “Did the disciples see a vision”. I have to say that if Xianity is wrong, this would be the first place I'd look for how it started.
What I'll take from all this, apart from an excellent question about aliens, is that even the best alternative explanation doesn't really come close to credibility.
YMMV, as we used to say when it was fashionable.
There was no systematic persecution of the first few generations of the Early Church. However (and there is a difference) it was still very dangerous to be a Xian, up to and including death. I explained why this was the case in my previous post, and I would ask you please to reread that. The theory there is backed up by the evidence.
To review the cases I put forward:
The NT accounts, treated with care like other historical documents, are consistent and clear. Paul's personal experiences in his letters were particularly eye-watering. We are looking at multiple attestation of sources and forms, more than enough to secure what I said, alone.
AD 64 was a very bad year to be a Xian: http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/christians.htm
Every proper historian I looked at said James was killed, but it's irrelevant. That he was sentenced to be stoned makes the point very clearly that bad things were happening to Xians.
And to requote your Pliny “if they are denounced and proved guilty [of being Xians], they are to be punished”.
Jehanne:
I didn't discount the BVM appearances- I said “dunno” which means “Don't know”.
Paul's 'Jesus voice' was heard by his companions, and I don't think scales on eyes are a symptom of epilepsy.
The integrity of text of the Gospels is remarkable by comparison to other ancient texts. This would need a thread of its own, but for example with Caesar's Gallic War, there are only 10 good MSS and the oldest is 900 years after Caesar. By contrast, there are just under 6000 NT manuscripts, with copies of most of the NT dating from just 100 years or so after its writing.
On the Matthew 'zombie' risings; I did say that any answer would have to be long. I distrust and dislike trying to compress a lengthy, detailed, nuanced answer into a couple of lines. So I won't.
In the ancient world, religious persecutions were political ones.
We seem to have moved on from the OP of “Did the disciples see a vision”. I have to say that if Xianity is wrong, this would be the first place I'd look for how it started.
What I'll take from all this, apart from an excellent question about aliens, is that even the best alternative explanation doesn't really come close to credibility.
YMMV, as we used to say when it was fashionable.
