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The problem with prayer.
The problem with prayer.
(August 4, 2016 at 6:17 pm)robvalue Wrote: The power of... irrational thought.

I've had an experience lately which gives me a little bit of insight into what religious beliefs might be like. I had an irrational belief, which kept going for quite a long time. Months. I knew it was irrational, yet it was powerful. It gave me hope. It felt like a way out of the depressing mess that is my life. It felt like a "cure". Emotionally, I believed it, even though logically I did not. It's too personal to discuss openly.

I felt the strain of cognitive dissonance. I can't give myself over to fantasy, no matter how strong the emotion, so I was struggling to reconcile this with reality. Part of me didn't want to give up this belief.

But eventually I did. I finally came to terms with the fact that it was a ridiculous, fanciful and unrealistic belief. It was a relief. But it also felt rather sad. I'd lost the hope I had. Even though I know it was false hope, and I even knew it at the time, it still felt sad to lose it. I got a small inkling of how firmly religious people must cling to their beliefs, no matter what the logical part of their brain is telling them. The dissonance was killing me; I can't imagine what trying to reconcile religious beliefs with reality must be like.

I'm settling down. I choose reality. Irrational false hope is not much different to constantly getting drunk or taking drugs. It's not any kind of permanent solution, and it's irresponsible to let such things affect decision making for yourself and others.


I have experienced something similar. It wasn't a desirable fantasy like you had, but it definitely speaks to the power of the mind. My family took a vacation to Disney when I was about 13 years old. I was very mentally/emotionally unstable at the time, which I think was the result of puberty onset combined with a significant history of depression/anxiety in all the women on my mom's side of the family.

Anyway, while in Florida I experienced a paranoid delusion. I suspected my mom and grandfather of plotting to kill me. I'm not sure what triggered it; I think maybe leaving our home state for the first time, flying for the first time, and just being in a completely foreign place in general left me feeling vulnerable, and it just happened.

This is where is cognitive dissonance comes in. I completely rationally understood that my family was not plotting to kill me. I KNEW the thoughts were insane and false, but I couldn't stop thinking it. I couldn't stop feeling it. I remember being in the back seat of the car listening to them talk to each other. Even though I could clearly hear every word they were saying, I felt sure they were talking about throwing me out of the vehicle to my death. The emotions were overpowering. They overpowered my rational thought in the sense that it completely ruined my vacation. I cried in the hotel bathroom every day. The feelings of dread, abandonment and fear did not lessen with my consciously acknowledging that they were completely based in delusion. It was a truly awful experience, and deeply disturbing to have felt two completely contradictory beliefs at the same time. I KNOW my family isn't trying to kill me, but I just KNOW that they are.

Unlike your experience, I was happy when mine passed on its own (and thankfully have never had another one), but I think it goes to show how forceful human emotion can be. All these people who think they "feel god's love"...without some tangible, reality-based anchor to ground yourself, how could you ever possibly make the distinction between God and the complex workings of the human brain?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The problem with prayer. - by Gawdzilla - July 20, 2016 at 9:52 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by mediocrates - July 20, 2016 at 10:06 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ApeNotKillApe - July 20, 2016 at 10:13 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 10:38 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - July 25, 2016 at 10:56 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by FatAndFaithless - July 20, 2016 at 10:09 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Gawdzilla - July 20, 2016 at 10:34 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 10:40 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 20, 2016 at 10:42 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 10:59 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by brewer - July 20, 2016 at 1:58 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Spirian - July 20, 2016 at 2:39 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Simon Moon - July 20, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by brewer - July 20, 2016 at 3:48 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Spirian - July 20, 2016 at 4:12 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by chimp3 - August 1, 2016 at 10:20 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:01 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 11:06 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 11:02 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:03 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 11:07 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:09 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 20, 2016 at 11:12 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:08 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 11:09 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:11 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 11:26 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 11:51 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 20, 2016 at 1:09 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Angrboda - July 20, 2016 at 1:49 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 20, 2016 at 11:55 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Gawdzilla - July 20, 2016 at 12:49 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 20, 2016 at 12:57 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 20, 2016 at 2:14 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Gawdzilla - July 21, 2016 at 7:08 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 20, 2016 at 1:16 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 21, 2016 at 12:33 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 1:34 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Simon Moon - July 20, 2016 at 2:41 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by CapnAwesome - July 20, 2016 at 1:44 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Spirian - July 20, 2016 at 1:48 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 20, 2016 at 2:14 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 20, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by PETE_ROSE - July 20, 2016 at 3:31 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Simon Moon - July 20, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Viking - July 20, 2016 at 4:46 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2016 at 4:55 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 21, 2016 at 6:34 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 21, 2016 at 6:40 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by chimp3 - July 21, 2016 at 6:54 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 21, 2016 at 1:04 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 21, 2016 at 1:44 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 23, 2016 at 3:45 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 23, 2016 at 8:00 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 24, 2016 at 4:20 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 25, 2016 at 10:40 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 26, 2016 at 3:28 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 26, 2016 at 4:10 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 27, 2016 at 2:52 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Grandizer - July 26, 2016 at 7:20 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 27, 2016 at 3:44 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Grandizer - July 27, 2016 at 8:22 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 29, 2016 at 2:30 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 27, 2016 at 1:43 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 29, 2016 at 2:25 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 29, 2016 at 6:13 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 3:58 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 30, 2016 at 9:23 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 4, 2016 at 2:46 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 29, 2016 at 5:43 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Gemini - July 29, 2016 at 6:20 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 3:56 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 3:55 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 26, 2016 at 1:06 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 27, 2016 at 3:41 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 27, 2016 at 6:28 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 29, 2016 at 2:35 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 26, 2016 at 6:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Spirian - July 21, 2016 at 1:58 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 21, 2016 at 2:16 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 21, 2016 at 3:00 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by brewer - July 21, 2016 at 7:56 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 23, 2016 at 3:47 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 23, 2016 at 8:01 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 23, 2016 at 8:03 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 24, 2016 at 7:56 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 24, 2016 at 3:32 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Silver - July 24, 2016 at 5:05 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 24, 2016 at 3:41 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 24, 2016 at 3:46 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Esquilax - July 24, 2016 at 5:03 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 24, 2016 at 3:45 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 25, 2016 at 8:17 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 26, 2016 at 8:11 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 24, 2016 at 8:54 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Silver - July 24, 2016 at 9:30 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - July 24, 2016 at 9:45 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Gawdzilla - July 25, 2016 at 11:45 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 24, 2016 at 10:54 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 25, 2016 at 7:03 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 8:43 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 8:54 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by LostLocke - July 25, 2016 at 9:41 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Drich - July 25, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 25, 2016 at 12:56 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - July 25, 2016 at 1:02 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 25, 2016 at 1:17 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 10:15 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Drich - July 25, 2016 at 3:09 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Nay_Sayer - July 25, 2016 at 6:04 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Drich - July 26, 2016 at 8:12 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - July 26, 2016 at 8:31 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 26, 2016 at 12:15 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Esquilax - July 26, 2016 at 12:57 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Crossless1 - July 25, 2016 at 10:39 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 25, 2016 at 11:02 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - July 25, 2016 at 11:06 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 25, 2016 at 11:20 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - July 25, 2016 at 11:21 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 12:40 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 25, 2016 at 6:47 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 7:29 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 11:06 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 1:19 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 25, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 1:24 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by FatAndFaithless - July 25, 2016 at 1:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 1:27 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 1:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 1:29 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 2:58 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by FatAndFaithless - July 25, 2016 at 3:00 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 3:15 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 6:50 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 25, 2016 at 7:15 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 7:17 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 25, 2016 at 8:01 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 8:07 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 8:09 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 8:11 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 25, 2016 at 8:16 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 8:29 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by drfuzzy - July 25, 2016 at 8:46 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 8:13 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Silver - July 25, 2016 at 8:31 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Valkyrie - July 25, 2016 at 8:36 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 25, 2016 at 9:26 pm
The problem with prayer. - by LadyForCamus - July 25, 2016 at 9:44 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 10:21 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 25, 2016 at 10:38 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 10:23 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 10:25 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 10:27 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 25, 2016 at 10:41 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 25, 2016 at 10:45 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 25, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Homeless Nutter - July 26, 2016 at 5:50 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2016 at 11:33 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 26, 2016 at 5:32 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 26, 2016 at 7:08 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 26, 2016 at 7:09 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Gawdzilla - July 26, 2016 at 8:10 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 26, 2016 at 8:14 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 26, 2016 at 12:15 pm
The problem with prayer. - by LadyForCamus - July 26, 2016 at 12:56 pm
The problem with prayer. - by LadyForCamus - July 26, 2016 at 12:59 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 26, 2016 at 5:49 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Angrboda - July 26, 2016 at 7:24 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by vorlon13 - July 26, 2016 at 7:51 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 26, 2016 at 8:00 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 26, 2016 at 8:02 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 26, 2016 at 8:55 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Angrboda - July 26, 2016 at 9:47 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 26, 2016 at 9:05 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 26, 2016 at 9:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by vorlon13 - July 26, 2016 at 11:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 26, 2016 at 9:12 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 26, 2016 at 9:20 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 26, 2016 at 10:20 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by bennyboy - July 26, 2016 at 10:53 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Valkyrie - July 26, 2016 at 10:56 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - July 26, 2016 at 10:43 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 26, 2016 at 11:23 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Valkyrie - July 26, 2016 at 11:35 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 27, 2016 at 3:16 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 27, 2016 at 6:12 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by vorlon13 - July 27, 2016 at 9:39 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 27, 2016 at 6:48 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - July 27, 2016 at 9:42 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 27, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 27, 2016 at 9:46 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by vorlon13 - July 27, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by ignoramus - July 27, 2016 at 11:09 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by vorlon13 - July 28, 2016 at 8:39 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by rado84 - July 28, 2016 at 7:55 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 2:58 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 29, 2016 at 2:59 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 3:43 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 4:02 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Excited Penguin - July 29, 2016 at 3:51 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 4:00 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - August 1, 2016 at 9:31 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 4, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - August 4, 2016 at 10:47 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 5, 2016 at 4:15 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Angrboda - August 4, 2016 at 6:54 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 5, 2016 at 4:20 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Angrboda - August 5, 2016 at 10:58 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Nay_Sayer - August 11, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Incognito - August 1, 2016 at 10:15 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 4, 2016 at 2:44 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Excited Penguin - August 4, 2016 at 2:46 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 4, 2016 at 3:17 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Excited Penguin - August 4, 2016 at 3:19 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Expired - August 4, 2016 at 4:16 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 5, 2016 at 4:11 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Expired - August 5, 2016 at 2:22 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Jesster - August 11, 2016 at 5:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Crossless1 - August 11, 2016 at 5:41 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Jesster - August 11, 2016 at 5:43 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - August 11, 2016 at 8:56 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Grandizer - August 11, 2016 at 9:25 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by drfuzzy - August 13, 2016 at 8:15 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Grandizer - August 13, 2016 at 8:41 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Incognito - August 31, 2016 at 2:38 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 29, 2016 at 3:35 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 29, 2016 at 3:38 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Czechlervitz30 - July 29, 2016 at 3:41 am
The problem with prayer. - by LadyForCamus - July 29, 2016 at 9:18 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 9:24 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 29, 2016 at 9:26 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 29, 2016 at 9:30 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 9:55 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - July 29, 2016 at 10:14 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 11:38 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 11:39 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 11:39 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - July 29, 2016 at 11:52 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by FatAndFaithless - July 29, 2016 at 11:53 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2016 at 11:53 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by popsthebuilder - July 29, 2016 at 4:29 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 29, 2016 at 7:12 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 3:59 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 4:01 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 4:39 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 4:52 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - August 4, 2016 at 2:54 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Minimalist - July 31, 2016 at 1:46 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 4:02 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Godschild - July 30, 2016 at 4:41 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 4:51 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 9:28 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - July 30, 2016 at 9:59 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 30, 2016 at 10:03 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Neo-Scholastic - July 31, 2016 at 10:27 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - August 1, 2016 at 9:38 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Losty - August 2, 2016 at 2:42 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - July 31, 2016 at 1:28 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 1, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Cyberman - August 1, 2016 at 1:03 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 1, 2016 at 1:00 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 2, 2016 at 12:03 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 2, 2016 at 2:50 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 2, 2016 at 2:50 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Fidel_Castronaut - August 2, 2016 at 2:59 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Expired - August 2, 2016 at 3:02 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by madog - August 2, 2016 at 4:54 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 4, 2016 at 3:02 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - August 4, 2016 at 6:17 pm
The problem with prayer. - by LadyForCamus - August 4, 2016 at 8:55 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - August 5, 2016 at 1:14 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - August 5, 2016 at 4:14 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 5, 2016 at 6:59 am
The problem with prayer. - by LadyForCamus - August 5, 2016 at 8:13 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - August 5, 2016 at 8:16 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Edwardo Piet - August 5, 2016 at 8:16 am
RE: The problem with prayer. - by The Grand Nudger - August 5, 2016 at 3:30 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Whateverist - August 11, 2016 at 8:55 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by robvalue - August 5, 2016 at 3:55 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by Nay_Sayer - August 11, 2016 at 2:15 pm
RE: The problem with prayer. - by rado84 - August 23, 2016 at 7:31 am

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