On Catholicism!

[fr0d0]

I didn't know you used to be an atheist. While I hate indoctrination, it makes the fact that a person believes more understandable. And while I think it's ideal for people not to be indoctrinated and chose their religion as an adult, there's still a part of me that thinks they should know better and not end up in a religion. However, I till respect your right to believe.

I think it's un-Christian to indoctrinate. Especially children. I agree in bringing children up with Christian standards if that's your belief. But a major part of a parents resonsibility is to teach the child to think for themselves and enable them to find their own way in life.

You say that certain things go against Christianity that Catholics do which makes then non Christian. I would say that's your interpretation because those things that you say go against Christ others would argue that they don't.

Fair enough. How can I know how an individual takes on those beliefs. Like you say, the person could be genuinely & completely trying to follow Christ. We all have our weaknesses, and have to realise that. Personally I think it goes beyond personal belief when you start making it a doctrine of the church. When that happens, the church is in error. Churches stepping over the line are disowned by the wider church. I know the Catholic Church is close to the line, currently they aren't considered to be over it.

You are correct, I never chose Christianity. As soon was given the option to chose, I rebeled. But that doesn't mean I never truly believed, it doesn't mean I don't know the religion. Essentially my deconversion was simply from realizing I had the choice to really question the faith and when I did it fell apart and I could never go back. However that doesn't mean I was never Christian. If I held onto those beliefs I would still profress Christianity.

I know from personal experience children who are more encouraged into belief than left to make up their own minds. I know & know of many people like this who later decide the opposite. It just goes to prove the error. If parents want their children to consider their faith seriously and potentially follow suit they have to give the child full choice.

How can the religion that founded Christianity be anything but Christian?

Catholicism didn't found Christianity I think. It may have been the first major organisation of it. There are and have been many Christian sects that are non Christian in actual fact. 'catholic' (small 'c') means 'universal' church. The Catholic church ceased to be 'catholic' at the reformation. From that point on the catholic (universal) church was more than Catholicism.

Still, Catholicism doesn't have to last forever. Most churches fail when traditionalism overrides present needs. Look at the Salvation Army. It was born of a time where it's military style & fire & brimstone was popular. Today, militarism is unfashionable and fire & brimstone is considered unbiblical. Yet the old Salvationists still cling to the old ways ignoring any relevance Christianity has to todays world. The traditional wing of the church is naturally dying out.

I understand why you don't think I was ever a Christian, that's your opinion but not a matter of fact. The fact is I was baptised into the Catholic religion and raised on those beliefs. So I was a Christian. Anytime you put forth your own opinion to decide that someone was or is not the label they put on themselves, you are committing a fallacy. If a someone claims to be what they were, then that's what they were. I accept that you say you were an atheist and I'm not going to challenge it. I told Edward that I don't think he was every really an atheist, but I also fully admitted in that same post that I was making that fallacy.

I can't say you were never Christian, only you can know that. It certainly doesn't sound like you were, but it means nothing for me to say that. It's just perhaps an ignorant observation on my part.

Pardon my ignorance again, but how does the fact that you were baptised and raised as a Catholic make you a Christian? If someone was raised a Christian that wouldn't ever make them a Christian, at some point they'd have to make a decision to believe. Just asking.

I have no doubt whatsoever that you were actually a Catholic. You're in a much better position even now to know if that's right or not. I believe that you fully were.

A person can know everything there is to know about a religion, but without actually changing your life in response you can be as ignorant as someone who knows nothing at all. That statement, as you'll probably know, is biblical of course.

That essentially is saying that you can't know facts. It makes the assumption that if you learn about a religion you must be persuaded about it. I've learned about the Greek religion and not changed my life in response, I was simply enriching my knowledge of what other people believed. I can understand why people believe things and still not believe it. I think the statement also assumes people should be positively changed by a religion. I think the opposite can happen. As I investigated Catholicism and Christianity I was repulsed by it.

Absolutely, you can go either way. To be a Christian, I'm saying, is very different from studying it. You can know Christianity inside out, I believe, yet not 'get it' at all. Only in believing will you ever understand it.