RE: What do Atheists believe the Bible as?
July 20, 2011 at 7:50 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2011 at 12:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why do I need some standard for an absolute moral authority regarding slavery? LOL, at the ad hom comment...I'll gladly insult the proponents of slavery under any guise. Just raise your hands so I can fire off an entire volley of ad homs.
When there's no other choice? So when exactly is there only one option, that option being to purchase a human being, and this of course for their own good? Remember, we're talking slavery here, not buying someone and releasing them. That's playing the system to a persons favor, not enslaving them.
You'll have to forgive my confusion here btw, you're asking me to show you an absolute moral authority of some kind when I've never claimed there to be one. In fact I pretty much argue against any form of absolute authority every time I post. That I'm suspicious of anyone who would consider another human being as property has nothing to do with moral authority, and everything to do with my desire to live in a world where I would never be considered as such (or anyone else for that matter, but lets be honest...specifically me). I'm left wondering here if you're playing the devil's advocate, or if you actually feel that the institution of slavery has some saving grace, some merit or benefit to mankind. The only argument from a moral authority that I've heard thusfar regarding slavery is the one that goes "God says it's okay...with provisions", well, I don't agree, what justification do I need other than that I disagree? I can be even clearer, if there were a god, proven beyond all doubt to exist, I would still disagree with slavery, even if that meant disagreeing with the real and absolute cosmic authority. I don't need feel the need to prop my opinions on this matter up with any type of authority whatsoever, beyond my own. Perhaps I cant assert any sort of authority on this matter beyond my own sphere of influence, but it is a sword I'd gladly fall on if the only choice was to perpetuate the institution of slavery or die. Before you accuse me of posturing on this, here from my pc chair, understand that I am already a person who's stood between hostile fire and friendly people. These aren't just words, but part of the core of what makes me who I am. So much for the atheists flexible morality eh?
It may be that I'm completely off base, that there are indeed circumstances which allow for the ethical trade and ownership of human beings. I haven't seen a convincing argument to that effect. Until such time as I come across a convincing argument FOR slavery, I'm going to aggressively ridicule those who hold a pro-slavery opinion.
I believe there is a thread on the subject of the bible and slavery particularly, and lest someone get the idea that I've singled this issue out......
If at any point the bible promotes or condones actions which we, as human beings, have decided are less than ideal, I take issue. Whatever one might think of the text, and whatever usefulness it has in any area absolutely ends when it comes to morality. There is nothing that is right or wrong based solely upon the verses in the bible. That we live under a divine dictatorship, with no hope of appeal or escape, that one race of people is chosen over others and as such has divine right to a piece of land or in fact all of the world, that atrocities can be committed in his name, and by that proclamation found to be righteous, that the rules and structure of the human experience are forever etched in stone and cannot be altered, that we should place a higher value on the next world than this..forsaking our earthly concerns for a kingdom in the heavens ruled over by the aforementioned tyrant, that I have a debt for a service or good I did not wish to partake of, and that this debt has been, or even could be paid by torture and suffering, that the highest vocation for a human being is that of a servant to this very ideal, and finally that the world will one day end in yet more suffering and torture..that this day is one to be wished for..and that at the end of this day all of those who stood against this tyranny will be forever cast into a lake of fire. This is what I see when I read the bible. That platitudes and homilies are interspersed within the text does nothing to soften the abject horror of the core narrative, to me.
Notice that I don't even touch upon the wall of ignorance that those who believed the bible to be the literal word of god and factually inerrant erected between ourselves and progress. I don't have to, even if every word were true, it would still be terrible.
When there's no other choice? So when exactly is there only one option, that option being to purchase a human being, and this of course for their own good? Remember, we're talking slavery here, not buying someone and releasing them. That's playing the system to a persons favor, not enslaving them.
You'll have to forgive my confusion here btw, you're asking me to show you an absolute moral authority of some kind when I've never claimed there to be one. In fact I pretty much argue against any form of absolute authority every time I post. That I'm suspicious of anyone who would consider another human being as property has nothing to do with moral authority, and everything to do with my desire to live in a world where I would never be considered as such (or anyone else for that matter, but lets be honest...specifically me). I'm left wondering here if you're playing the devil's advocate, or if you actually feel that the institution of slavery has some saving grace, some merit or benefit to mankind. The only argument from a moral authority that I've heard thusfar regarding slavery is the one that goes "God says it's okay...with provisions", well, I don't agree, what justification do I need other than that I disagree? I can be even clearer, if there were a god, proven beyond all doubt to exist, I would still disagree with slavery, even if that meant disagreeing with the real and absolute cosmic authority. I don't need feel the need to prop my opinions on this matter up with any type of authority whatsoever, beyond my own. Perhaps I cant assert any sort of authority on this matter beyond my own sphere of influence, but it is a sword I'd gladly fall on if the only choice was to perpetuate the institution of slavery or die. Before you accuse me of posturing on this, here from my pc chair, understand that I am already a person who's stood between hostile fire and friendly people. These aren't just words, but part of the core of what makes me who I am. So much for the atheists flexible morality eh?
It may be that I'm completely off base, that there are indeed circumstances which allow for the ethical trade and ownership of human beings. I haven't seen a convincing argument to that effect. Until such time as I come across a convincing argument FOR slavery, I'm going to aggressively ridicule those who hold a pro-slavery opinion.
I believe there is a thread on the subject of the bible and slavery particularly, and lest someone get the idea that I've singled this issue out......
If at any point the bible promotes or condones actions which we, as human beings, have decided are less than ideal, I take issue. Whatever one might think of the text, and whatever usefulness it has in any area absolutely ends when it comes to morality. There is nothing that is right or wrong based solely upon the verses in the bible. That we live under a divine dictatorship, with no hope of appeal or escape, that one race of people is chosen over others and as such has divine right to a piece of land or in fact all of the world, that atrocities can be committed in his name, and by that proclamation found to be righteous, that the rules and structure of the human experience are forever etched in stone and cannot be altered, that we should place a higher value on the next world than this..forsaking our earthly concerns for a kingdom in the heavens ruled over by the aforementioned tyrant, that I have a debt for a service or good I did not wish to partake of, and that this debt has been, or even could be paid by torture and suffering, that the highest vocation for a human being is that of a servant to this very ideal, and finally that the world will one day end in yet more suffering and torture..that this day is one to be wished for..and that at the end of this day all of those who stood against this tyranny will be forever cast into a lake of fire. This is what I see when I read the bible. That platitudes and homilies are interspersed within the text does nothing to soften the abject horror of the core narrative, to me.
Notice that I don't even touch upon the wall of ignorance that those who believed the bible to be the literal word of god and factually inerrant erected between ourselves and progress. I don't have to, even if every word were true, it would still be terrible.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
