Proof that God exists

[The Grand Nudger]

My problem with biology is similar to this joke:  

God was once approached by a scientist who said, “Listen God, we’ve decided we don’t need you anymore. These days we can clone people, transplant organs and do all sorts of things that used to be considered miraculous.”
God replied, “Don’t need me huh? How about we put your theory to the test. Why don’t we have a competition to see who can make a human being, say, a male human being.”
The scientist agrees, so God declares they should do it like he did in the good old days when he created Adam.
“Fine” says the scientist as he bends down to scoop up a handful of dirt.”
“Whoa!” says God, shaking his head in disapproval. “Not so fast. You get your own dirt.”

Cute huh  

I prefer Sagans "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe".  

If you claim life comes from a bunch of junk, you still need to show the junk isn't contaminated with life.

I don't, and neither does evolutionary biology, so NP..right?  Some folks might refer to panspermia, but ultimately that just pushes the question back to another planet, and for the most part credible hypothesis in that regard aren;t that life came here from other planets, but some of the chemical constituents of early life. One could describe the notion that life arises from organic chemistry -as- the notion that the universe is, in some sense, "contaminated with life" in that the universe is contaminated with organic chemistry, and life of some sort may be an inexorable product thereof.

Even if, one day, we could produce life in a test tube, that doesn't prove anything because my contention is that life will spontaneously arise anywhere in this universe... another planet, in sulfur lakes, volcanoes, or the bottom of test tubes and the fact that it happens that way settles nothing.  What you would have to do is create your own spacetime complete with gluon field, quarks, protons, neutrons, electrons, etc and have life result from a known sterile sample and then you could proclaim that life results from nonlife.  Essentially, you'd have to create your own dirt to be scientifically certain.

The question being asked is whether or not on this planet, in this universe, the life which does exist could arise by natural process.  So, no, no one has to "make their own dirt" or their own universe to answer that definitively, and if a scientist created life in a lab it would demonstrably prove that it was possible, lol.

That realization came about after contemplating if I could take a seed to mars and expect it to grow in martian soil if I could provide the right atmosphere, then I quickly saw that the environment is codependent with the organism and they are two sides of the same coin.  And it's much deeper than that because the environment requires the whole universe and therefore the organism and universe are one inseparable thing.

Full disclosure, I work with plants and have a creepy plant fetish (so..yes, artificial selection is a real thing..I do it for a living, lol. Artificial as in artifice..not as in "unnatural" or "fake").  The martian soil is not suitable, either.  Too sharp.  So you really would need your own dirt in that case. Very, very little would grow in a pop up with atmo on martian soil (we're actually running experiments on this..you should google it, cool as shit).

As to the rest,  are you trying to describe how the organism depends on the environment?  Yeah...sure.  That's evolutionary biology 101.  Natural selection wouldn't be as effective if that weren't true.

An apple requires a tree which requires dirt which requires a planet which requires a solar system which requires a galaxy which requires a universe.  One measly apple requires a whole universe to produce and can never be a thing by itself.

Sure, good thing we have a universe, and a planet, and soil, right?  The apples you're talking about..though...they're heavily artificially selected - but also grafted. It;s two trees you're thinking of whenever you think of an apple tree. They don't exist the way you know them in the wild. We did that- just like all the rest of our food - leveraging evolutionary biology before we even knew what it was.

So to string some atoms together in a lab and make life.... that just doesn't prove anything to me because whatever life is, it's inherent to the whole universe in a continuum and it isn't something that can be dissected out and examined anymore than you could remove the north pole of a magnet without also taking the south.

"even if the others guys turned out to be right it wouldn;t prove anything to me and it's not like anyone can study it anyway!"

...............................?

-therefore god?

Can you understand my disconnect? You don;t seem to have an accurate picture of evolutionary biology, but laying that aside..I don't see why it has anything to do with the god/no god proposition. That proposition could be true or false regardless of evolutionary biology. Certainly -some- gods would then be false. (like the one that made mud men in magic book)...but them's the breaks when it comes to lying about our origins, or..to put it more generously, professing knowledge in ignorance.

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I thought this might help.

The fact of evolution - the observation that organisms change over time.  

The theory of evolution - Modern Synth.  



-Modern Synth
The unifying theory of biology.  A fusion of mendelian genetics and darwinian evolution.  

The darwinian end-
Natural selection - organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring.
Artificial selection-  the selective breeding of organisms for a desirable trait.
(darwin was not aware of what mechanism, specifically, either of the above was achieved by)

The mendelian end- 
The Laws of Heredity- a description of the chemical process by which traits are passed from one generation of organisms to the next.  
(this guy was a monk)

So..if looking at the above, you don't have any "issue" with that..then you don't have an issue with modern synth, or with evolution, or with natural or artificial selection. Evolution doesn't have to be supervised or watched over any more than you have to supervise an ice cube in order for it to melt...but it can be, as in artificial selection (conversely, you could throw the ice cube in a hot oven, lol). Nor does it have anything to do with creating universes, it;s something that happens

-where there is a universe (this universe, lol)
-and where there is life (here we are)
-which does encode and pass along genetic material (which we do)
-which doesn't uniformly manage perfect copies in that process (which we don't)
-and who have to then live and compete in an environment upon which they depend (earth goes hard).

It doesn't matter -how- we ended up with this planet. It doesn't matter if a god created this planet, or if it got here by natural processes itself (spoiler alert, it's the latter). Once you have these conditions, by any means, you have evolution.