Proof that God exists

[The Grand Nudger]

@Cor
Tell you what..if I link you the recurring UN report on human progress..do you think you could give me a concrete example of how the whole thing is abritrary plucking of unscientific, unempirical data?  Here's last years.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/2014-report

What constitutes progress depends upon your values as to what would be good.  Values, by their nature, are subjective.  There is no such thing as an objective value.  As a result, there can be no objective measure of progress, it's always going to be a subjective matter.  To conclude anything from this impasse, such as "there is no progress" or that "science is a matter of faith", is to draw conclusions based upon nothing.  Your conclusions are non sequiturs, and no amount of counter-examples to claims of progress will make your denials any more sensible.  You have a stupid argument, complete with a non-point.

I think there are a great many objective measures of human progress, not all of them refer to the same particulars...as there are a great many components worth considering in human progress. I linked one above, the subjectivity being referred to here is a trivial subjectivity, imo (a pet peeve of mine). I have opinions you have opinions we all have opinions. In some peoples opinion more of set x belongs in human progress and less of set y...and others insists that none of set z is properly accounted for. We've got one here who asserts that progress is somehow not a thing or unscentific..for reasons™, and in the dame breath asks me about victims of progress.......

I'm sure we can reach an accomodation, lol..and even if we can't we can all work on our own little areas of interest and effect real and objective progress all the same. It's been working thusfar..despite everyone like..having an opinion, man.



Something being objective is an issue of it being able to be demonstrated independently of any given agent..not of it's deriving itself from no agent at all. Our being subjective agents with desires and values does not preclude objective metrics or objective progress in any meaningful way. It doesn't make every thing a "subjective matter". This would be an insensible deployment of the term objective. I asked Cor about simple metrics..and he responded by talking about something else. That;s not a rejection of progress or the notion of progress or even a criticism of their objectivity as metrics...it's just changing the subject.

I'd rate it no higher than lazy malcontentism...not really an argument. "In my opinion that's not human progress, hurr durr" - Fine. Call it fleeflarp. Have we made objective fleeflarp progress? Yes? Fin. I worry about the problems my children may inherit from me..but a longer lifespan doesn't register as one of them...and if we were being honest with ourselves..neither does Cor, since he launched off on diatribe about -other- problems such as pandemics rather then explain to me why a rational person wouldn't consider -increased lifespans- progress or indicative of progress.