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What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
(March 13, 2018 at 4:19 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(March 13, 2018 at 1:55 pm)He lives Wrote: ...There has been research done on out of body. I don't know it you are aware of the research that was done by Dr. Tart: 

Dr. Charles Tart, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of California–Davis, performed one of the most famous studies on OBEs. He tested a woman, whom he referred to in the study as Miss Z, by placing a number on a shelf above the bed on which she slept. He watched her as she slept to insure she did not physically get up and look at the number.

The 5-digit number was randomly selected after she had gone to sleep, and it was brought into the room in an opaque envelope. Miss Z reported having left her body while lying on the bed and having floated up to look at the number. She correctly stated the number as it was written on the paper.

Jormungandr Wrote:"During the experiment Tart monitored the equipment in the next room, behind an observation window, however, he admitted he had occasionally dozed during the night."
~ Wikipedia, Charles Tart

By his own admission, she was not constantly monitored as you seem to imply above.  She had ample opportunity to rise up and take a peek during one of his "naps."  In fact, according to Susan Blackmore, there is even evidence that she did just that.  In her words, "If Miss Z had tried to climb up, the brain-wave record would have showed a pattern of interference. And that was exactly what it did show." (Wikipedia, ibid.)

Moreover, there's evidence that the content of alleged OBEs is hallucinatory (see below).  If some OBE content is hallucinatory, it stands to reason that all OBE content is hallucinatory.  It would be absurd to maintain that some OBEs are fake, but not all of them.

Quote:(4) In a study of 264 subjects with sleep paralysis[3], Giorgio Buzzi and Fabio Cirignotta found that about 11% of their subjects (28 people) "viewed themselves lying on the bed, generally from a location above the bed" (Buzzi 2116). As Buzzi points out, however, these out-of-body experiences often included false perceptions of the physical environment:

I invited these people to do the following simple reality tests: trying to identify objects put in unusual places; checking the time on the clock; and focusing on a detail of the scene, and comparing it with reality.

I received a feedback [sic] from five individuals. Objects put in unusual places (eg, on top of the wardrobe) were never identified during out-of-body experiences. Clocks also proved to be unreliable: a woman with nightly episodes of sleep paralysis had two out-of-body experiences in the same night, and for each the clock indicated an impossible time.... Finally, in all cases but one, some slight but important differences in the details were noted: "I looked at 'me' sleeping peacefully in the bed while I wandered about. Trouble is the 'me' in the bed was wearing long johns ... I have never worn such a thing" (Buzzi 2116-2117).

Buzzi concludes that because these experiences contained out-of-body discrepancies and failed his other 'reality tests,' his subjects' out-of-body imagery must have been derived from memory and imagination rather than from the physical environment at the time (2117).



(8) Other NDErs have reported seeing friends out-of-body with them who are, in reality, still alive and normally conscious. The Evergreen Study also recorded a clearly hallucinatory near-death experience after a major car accident:

Well, then I remember, not physical bodies but like holding hands, the two of us, up above the trees. It was a cloudy day, a little bit of clouds. And thinking here we go, we're going off into eternity... and then bingo, I snapped my eyes open and I looked over and he was staring at me [ellipsis original] (Lindley, Bryan, and Conley 110).

The authors of the study go on to write: "In this incident a woman had lost consciousness but her male companion had not. In the experience, she perceived the two of them in an out-of-body state, yet her friend never blacked out" (110).



More at: Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences

Quote:A few bad apples is not a good defence. Scientists have had failures too. Just saying.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold? - by He lives - March 13, 2018 at 9:03 pm

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