RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 24, 2018 at 10:51 am
(This post was last modified: March 24, 2018 at 11:50 am by He lives.)
(March 24, 2018 at 6:08 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: If you watch the video, which is not compelling, you will hear Pam say that when her OOB experience began she could hear the surgeon's instrument begin to whir. The chart below is from Jor's Link. It shows that the OOB started well before any simulated brain death had occurred.
Quote:First, it is quite clear that Pam did not have her NDE during any period of flat EEG.[16] Indeed, she was as far as a patient undergoing her operation could possibly be from clinical death when her OBE began.[17] Second, she had no cerebral cortical activity for no longer than roughly half an hour. Both of these facts are nicely illustrated in Figure 1 below.
He Lives, this is the problem with accounts such as these. The ones that actually allow for individual details to be investigated don't hold up to scrutiny. I watched your video. It reminded me very much of the stuff about paranormal activity and hauntings that my mother used to watch when I was younger. There is atmospheric "heavenly" music included with the video. As she recounts her story, there is an emotional and moving tone when she describes light being "the breath of God." This video is about telling a story not presenting a case. Since you're a believer, it resonates with you. But if (like us) someone is combing it for relevant facts that might prove a certain phenomenon, it's next to useless.
What might earn you a bit more credibility here is if (when you present a case) you post skeptical objections to your claims (like the one's found in Jor's link) and then proceed to show us where the objections might fall short. What you are doing now is hopping back and forth between posting weak anecdotal accounts and then, when somebody begins to poke holes in them you shout "abiogenesis!"
You seem to be fascinated by the accounts of people who have the sensation that they "look down upon their own body." When I was younger, I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs. One of these was ketamine. A handful of times the drug produced hallucinations that were not unlike some of your accounts; one time I remember sitting on a couch feeling like I was two feet to the right of myself, looking at the side of my own head. One might conclude that ketamine somehow causes the soul to become briefly disembodied... that that is a side effect of the drug... or one might conclude that, in instances of sensory deprivation, the brain produces images that are interpreted as "disembodiment" as a consequence of the lack of stimuli.
I'm not saying you should outright deny NDEs or OOBs. I'm saying, keep your mind open to to a purely physiological interpretations of the phenomena. Be a skeptic of your own beliefs (after all, that's what a true skeptic is). When I watched your video, I opened my mind to the possibility that it might substantiate your claim. It did not. What I saw was a finely-woven story complete with spiritual music and stage effects of brilliant white light. There was no scrutiny of the facts. There was no substantiation of the claims. Why would anyone find this convincing? Put yourself in a skeptic's shoes. Think about what objections we might have and treat them.
If you really want to make your case, why don't you read the article that Jörmungandr posted above. Quote a passage from it and show point-by-point how it fails to debunk Reynolds's claim. Airy fairy music and "you guys just refuse to believe!" isn't going to convince anyone to change his or her position.
I looked at the illustration. OBE started at 8:40 a. m., but there is no indication when it ended. She stated it ended when her heart was restarted. That would have been 12:00 p. m. Therefore it is clear to me that she was able to see and hear what was going on in the room when she was indeed clinically dead. How can you explain that she was able to recall what was said and hear the conversation when her eyes were taped shut and her ears were plugged. She was also able to accurately describe the instruments used in the operation.