Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 27, 2025, 4:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
(March 24, 2018 at 6:08 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: If you watch the video, which is not compelling, you will hear Pam say that when her OOB experience began she could hear the surgeon's instrument begin to whir. The chart below is from Jor's Link. It shows that the OOB started well before any simulated brain death had occurred.

Quote:First, it is quite clear that Pam did not have her NDE during any period of flat EEG.[16] Indeed, she was as far as a patient undergoing her operation could possibly be from clinical death when her OBE began.[17] Second, she had no cerebral cortical activity for no longer than roughly half an hour. Both of these facts are nicely illustrated in Figure 1 below.
[Image: timeline.png]


He Lives, this is the problem with accounts such as these. The ones that actually allow for individual details to be investigated don't hold up to scrutiny. I watched your video. It reminded me very much of the stuff about paranormal activity and hauntings that my mother used to watch when I was younger. There is atmospheric "heavenly" music included with the video. As she recounts her story, there is an emotional and moving tone when she describes light being "the breath of God." This video is about telling a story not presenting a case. Since you're a believer, it resonates with you. But if (like us) someone is combing it for relevant facts that might prove a certain phenomenon, it's next to useless. 

What might earn you a bit more credibility here is if (when you present a case) you post skeptical objections to your claims (like the one's found in Jor's link) and then proceed to show us where the objections might fall short. What you are doing now is hopping back and forth between posting weak anecdotal accounts and then, when somebody begins to poke holes in them you shout "abiogenesis!"

You seem to be fascinated by the accounts of people who have the sensation that they "look down upon their own body." When I was younger, I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs. One of these was ketamine. A handful of times the drug produced hallucinations that were not unlike some of your accounts; one time I remember sitting on a couch feeling like I was two feet to the right of myself, looking at the side of my own head. One might conclude that ketamine somehow causes the soul to become briefly disembodied... that that is a side effect of the drug... or one might conclude that, in instances of sensory deprivation, the brain produces images that are interpreted as "disembodiment" as a consequence of the lack of stimuli.

I'm not saying you should outright deny NDEs or OOBs. I'm saying, keep your mind open to to a purely physiological interpretations of the phenomena. Be a skeptic of your own beliefs (after all, that's what a true skeptic is). When I watched your video, I opened my mind to the possibility that it might substantiate your claim. It did not. What I saw was a finely-woven story complete with spiritual music and stage effects of brilliant white light. There was no scrutiny of the facts. There was no substantiation of the claims. Why would anyone find this convincing? Put yourself in a skeptic's shoes. Think about what objections we might have and treat them.

If you really want to make your case, why don't you read the article that Jörmungandr posted above. Quote a passage from it and show point-by-point how it fails to debunk Reynolds's claim. Airy fairy music and "you guys just refuse to believe!" isn't going to convince anyone to change his or her position.

I looked at the illustration. OBE started at 8:40 a. m., but there is no indication when it ended. She stated it ended when her heart was restarted. That would have been 12:00 p. m. Therefore it is clear to me that she was able to see and hear what was going on in the room when she was indeed clinically dead. How can you explain that she was able to recall what was said and hear the conversation when her eyes were taped shut and her ears were plugged. She was also able to accurately describe the instruments used in the operation.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold? - by He lives - March 24, 2018 at 10:51 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Destruction of self confidence debunk_pls 50 8159 November 19, 2021 at 5:46 pm
Last Post: emjay
  How can a Christian reject part of the Bible and still call themselves a Christian? KUSA 371 114231 May 3, 2020 at 1:04 am
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Is this reasonable? Silver 24 5270 July 19, 2018 at 9:08 pm
Last Post: polymath257
  Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?? Jehanne 37 7080 June 21, 2018 at 1:43 am
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  So It Seems That This Jesus Freak Corporation's Religious Beliefs Only Go So Far Minimalist 11 3084 July 6, 2017 at 1:24 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Christian Self-censorship of Dirty Words mihoda 76 17235 November 2, 2016 at 4:52 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  Interesting survey of Evangelical beliefs in USA Bunburryist 33 7683 October 11, 2016 at 5:13 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Atheists, how would you explain these Christian testimonies? miguel54 44 12044 August 28, 2016 at 7:46 pm
Last Post: Crossless2.0
  Indoctrinated Beliefs Aractus 2 1411 May 9, 2015 at 5:05 am
Last Post: Aractus
  Christianity and its effect on self-worth Strider 210 34611 January 8, 2015 at 11:47 am
Last Post: robvalue



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)