Theists: Hitchens Wager

[Edwardo Piet]

Seeing the true nature of goodness and loving it for what it is.

If this can be done at all, it can be done equally by atheists.

Belief in God doesn't give you magic powers.

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That's what I meant.

If I say "Rape is immoral, and those who think rape is moral are incorrect," I'm saying that morality is objective.

I don't think it is logical for an atheist to believe morality is objective. This does not mean I don't think atheists can be moral.

How does adding a God to your moral system make it objective and how are you able to determine what that God is telling you is correct?

The way I see it is... if God can make anything moral including murdering and raping children.... then he's not really moral.

And if God can't do that, because that's immoral regardless of if God says it is, then that admits that morality transcends God.

And clearly, if God tells you to do something the question is still open as to whether what he asked is the right thing to do or not.

And even if God is omniscient and knows everything that is right and wrong, and only ever tells people to do the right thing, and never tells people to do the wrong thing: Those things would be just as right and wrong if he didn't exist... once against demonstrating that morality is outside of God.