Theists: Hitchens Wager

[Edwardo Piet]

Right, but you don't really believe humans 'thinking' is different than a tornado, do you?  Because we don't have free will.

It's different because we think.

Right, a tornado is certainly bad for the same reasons... the consequences. And Hitler is like a tornado because there's no free will. But to say that something non-human is being "morally bad" sounds bizarre.

For starters, here's a reason why it's non-arbitrary: Humans respond to punishment. Tornadoes don't.

That's probably the primary reason to be honest. Humans still have compatabilist free will, tornadoes don't.

I can't choose to not kick a lady down the stairs any more than a tornado can decide not to hit the local orphanage. 

Right. But you do have compatabilist free will. You are able to modify your behavior based on how you are treated. You respond to threats and punishment... praise and blame. It's still useful to hold people responsible even in reality they aren't. It isn't useful to hold tornadoes responsible.

Was just curious how you differentiated between those two things.

Well, moral theories aren't about whether tornadoes are bad or not. You don't put a tornado in prison when they kill someone. You don't expect the tornado to modify its behavior and stop killing people if you punish it.

We still have compatabilist free will. Tornadoes don't.