Would They Die for a Lie?

[Vicki Q]

Vicky,

You need to read more modern New Testament criticism; here is a wonderful text:

A Brief Introduction to the New Testament 4th Edition

Dawn

Whilst not denying that perhaps I should read more New Testament criticism, I think I should point out that, seeing as how Bart Ehrman is my favourite non-Christian writer, I am familiar with his ideas on NT criticism. And the ideas of a number of others of varying persuasions (including Earl Doherty, Richard Carrier and their ilk).

I'm not entirely sure what your point was.

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As far as what the Disciples themselves went through, we only have folklore from Christian sources.

Yes, and if we drop any idea for textual inspiration and treat the sources the same way as any other historical documents, it's a done deal historically. Whether it's the Gospel prophecies, the Gospel narratives, the letters of Paul to churches undergoing persecution, Paul's own personal accounts, the advice from the pseudepigrapha, or the martyrs of Revelation, there is a very, very consistent picture of what people were going through.

Indeed, with the multiplicity of sources and multiplicity of forms, it's an extremely fixed point to work from.

For the reasons I outlined earlier, this is absolutely what we would expect, given our knowledge of C1 Mediterranean society. Given there's nothing miraculous about being hit for half an hour by large men with big sticks, we can safely assume that it happened.

The later Christian persecution under Nero was a pogrom where they were blamed as arsonists for the fire that burned much of Rome. It's fair to say they didn't see that coming. The letter of Pliny also suggests persecution of second century Christians who did recant their faith under the lash. 

In modern times, examples abound of cultists and fanatics willing to die for their beliefs. Islam has produced plenty of examples and continues to do so. Fringe cults like the Heaven's Gate or the Jim Jones following produced tragic mass suicides, including their founders who ought to have known better. 

Why people are willing to die for crazy beliefs is a mystery to me but I can't deny that it happens. Fanaticism and persecution prove nothing.

Again, we need to distinguish here between what is believed and what is true. The disciples willingness to suffer and even die doesn't prove their belief in Jesus was true, but it is the strongest possible evidence that they did wholeheartedly have that belief.