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On the subject of Hell and Salvation
#89
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation
(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: What basis do you use to call it self evident, i assume you have faith that it is, but what reason do you have to assure yourself that faith true?

Logic is sufficient to determine the existence of God; faith is unnecessary. It's not difficult to see that creating something from nothing is clearly impossible, therefore a being capable of performing impossible tasks must have created everything. There are plenty of other reasons. The practical impossibility of the random creation of a single protein, or the even more distant (if such a thing can even be quantified) probability of functional DNA...the amazing symmetry and design found in nature despite entropy...the reasons supporting the existence of God are practically endless. The reasons for denying His existence are literally zero, so long as one has the correct arguments. You can argue which God He is, but only the Christian God aligns perfectly with the correct arguments.  


(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: what is 'walking' in truth ? and how would one know they had achieved this ?  

Good question. Walking in Truth is walking with Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean one has all of the answers, it means that one doesn't have to have all of the answers because he or she has the Solution to all problems, Jesus Christ. It's not about knowledge, it's about looking to God instead of to yourself. It's not really an "achievement," it's something that happens by the grace of God alone. It's a gift.

(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Where do you get that information from ? and how are you sure it's true to make such a bold statement ?

Well, the answer here is partly faith, but I've never seen the Truth contradicted. The Truth always prevails, because it's true. You'll know when you see it because it makes itself evident in the same way God's existence is evident. It will resonate with you.

(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: How do you know this to be true ? what about the scripture sets it aside as truth ?

Again, partly faith, but I've never seen anyone successfully contradict the Truth. Of course, there are very few people living today who know the Truth, and an abundance of those claiming to know but who are more or less clueless.

(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: So how do you know your  particular interpretation is true, as opposed to not true ?  

Sorry to repeat myself, but again, faith and the fact that I've never seen the Truth successfully contradicted. People certainly despise the Truth, but they're unable to defeat it.

(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Yes most people recognise when they do wrong, and that they are indeed responsible and stop what they are doing,  one might even say evil insofar as it is a word to describe acts which do us grievous harm.   But wouldn't you need proof before faith in any deity, indeed in any usefulness of repentance to any deity.

If you are saying that in effect you have to have faith, to well have faith, wont that get you safely to any deity, belief or idea ?

I'm not saying faith begets faith, although this isn't entirely false. Faith begins with grace. There is nothing one can do to earn it; it's a gift, as Paul writes in Ephesians:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God..." (Ephesians 2:8)

(February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Yes most people recognise when they do wrong, and that they are indeed responsible and stop what they are doing,  one might even say evil insofar as it is a word to describe acts which do us grievous harm.   But wouldn't you need proof before faith in any deity, indeed in any usefulness of repentance to any deity.

I just wanted to address this part, since I sort of skipped it. Your language is a bit choppy here, but it seems you're saying that people stop what they are doing when they recognize their wrongdoing. This isn't true. People tend to shrug off their wrongdoings, figuring it either isn't a big deal or that they'll do better next time, both of which are faulty assumptions in most cases. Wrongdoing is always serious, and we're incapable of refraining from evil completely in our own power. Only the grace and power of God can keep people from sinning.

Why would you need proof before any useful repentance if faith is what is required? And if you don't currently have faith, that isn't necessarily a problem. It only means that you don't yet have it. It's a gift, and gifts are given at appropriate times. First, God needs to bring you to a place of true spiritual brokenness, where you're genuinely seeking Him because you genuinely want to repent, not because you desire power or glory or knowledge, or because you just want a better life (wanting a better life is part of it, I'm just saying it shouldn't be the only reason).
Reply



Messages In This Thread
On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Alternatehistory95 - January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nakara - January 17, 2019 at 12:51 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 12:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by no one - January 17, 2019 at 12:56 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Duty - January 17, 2019 at 1:07 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by donlor - January 22, 2019 at 8:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 1:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 2:12 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 3:01 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by zebo-the-fat - January 17, 2019 at 4:09 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nakara - January 18, 2019 at 7:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 19, 2019 at 2:36 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - January 19, 2019 at 6:40 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Duty - January 18, 2019 at 7:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 18, 2019 at 8:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - January 18, 2019 at 3:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 21, 2019 at 2:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:39 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:44 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 5:00 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 10:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 4:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 4:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cecelia - January 17, 2019 at 5:28 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 17, 2019 at 5:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by AFTT47 - January 18, 2019 at 5:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by no one - January 19, 2019 at 5:00 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 21, 2019 at 2:17 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 21, 2019 at 2:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:05 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - January 21, 2019 at 12:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 21, 2019 at 6:16 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - January 22, 2019 at 10:26 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 5:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - February 8, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 8, 2019 at 1:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - January 22, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - January 22, 2019 at 3:32 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 24, 2019 at 3:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 8, 2019 at 6:12 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 9, 2019 at 1:58 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 9, 2019 at 2:24 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 13, 2019 at 3:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 13, 2019 at 4:06 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 14, 2019 at 2:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 14, 2019 at 5:25 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 15, 2019 at 1:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 15, 2019 at 2:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 16, 2019 at 3:19 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 16, 2019 at 9:45 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 18, 2019 at 2:51 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 18, 2019 at 4:22 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 19, 2019 at 3:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 19, 2019 at 5:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 19, 2019 at 7:33 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by downbeatplumb - February 19, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 20, 2019 at 2:32 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 20, 2019 at 8:29 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 8, 2019 at 12:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 8, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 8, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - February 14, 2019 at 12:22 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 14, 2019 at 12:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 1:06 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 15, 2019 at 4:31 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 4:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by FatAndFaithless - February 15, 2019 at 4:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 5:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 15, 2019 at 7:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 15, 2019 at 8:15 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 8:36 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 15, 2019 at 11:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 15, 2019 at 11:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 9:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 16, 2019 at 9:39 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 1:21 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 16, 2019 at 1:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 16, 2019 at 2:24 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 3:02 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 11:18 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 11:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 6:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 7:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 7:37 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 7:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 8:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 8:07 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 7:59 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 8:09 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 2:47 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 8:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 16, 2019 at 11:30 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 17, 2019 at 12:38 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 11:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 11:54 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 1:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 6:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 7:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 8:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 7:25 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 8:00 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 8:35 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 9:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 10:58 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 11:04 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 12:01 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 12:48 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 5:55 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 7:03 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 10:24 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 5:54 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 10:37 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 19, 2019 at 1:37 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 19, 2019 at 3:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 19, 2019 at 4:05 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 18, 2019 at 6:42 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 20, 2019 at 1:59 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 8:21 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 9:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 10:02 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 21, 2019 at 11:20 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 22, 2019 at 3:16 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 22, 2019 at 9:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 17, 2019 at 7:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 1:55 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 17, 2019 at 8:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 17, 2019 at 8:44 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 9:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 10:13 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 12:57 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 6:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 19, 2019 at 9:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 20, 2019 at 4:58 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 20, 2019 at 8:42 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 20, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 9:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 9:44 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:10 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 10:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:34 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:59 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 11:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 1:19 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 1:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 3:57 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 4:54 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 1:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 23, 2019 at 1:54 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 2:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 23, 2019 at 10:18 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 10:48 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 23, 2019 at 2:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 24, 2019 at 3:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 5:22 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:49 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - March 2, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 24, 2019 at 4:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Angrboda - February 24, 2019 at 9:35 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 24, 2019 at 6:31 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 24, 2019 at 6:23 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 24, 2019 at 6:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 10:27 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:25 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 9:01 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 6:17 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 7:57 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 4, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 6, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 2:26 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 1:16 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 4, 2019 at 2:04 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 3:22 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Angrboda - March 9, 2019 at 11:38 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - March 6, 2019 at 11:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 10, 2019 at 4:45 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - March 10, 2019 at 8:26 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - March 10, 2019 at 6:25 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - March 9, 2019 at 10:23 pm

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