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On the subject of Hell and Salvation
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation
Meh, since I'm on the subject, not only is this idea of a personal relationship with the divine common to classical paganism, it;s common to contemporary paganism...and in all three examples of contemporary christianity, classical paganism, and contemporary paganism...some deficiency in this personal relationship with the divine is suggested to be the root of much of our misery (if not all).  Each goes so far as to posit that the decreasing interest in the proper relationships with their prospective invocations of divinity are at least partially if not largely at fault for the apparent decline of their respective civilizations.    

To the classical greeks, divine abandonment was predicated on the wickedness of man and portended disaster.   To contemporary christians, the dimished role of christ in our lives and society is indicative of moral decay, and to contemporary pagans our disconnection with the numinous natural is very literally destroying the thing regarded as the source of divinity.

It's also interesting to point out that while each of the three groups has (and two still) carries a priestly class, there's a heavily refined form of shamanism presenting itself as mystery tradition in all three.  

Those truly called to the numinous both expect and report a deeply personal relationship with the divine.  This is, bluntly, what informs them of the very existence of the divine. The conceit of a priestly caste has always been that some have better ears than others - and this fails to make sense as a conjecture in the absence of the assumption that the divine engages in personal relationships with human beings. This single statement is the difference between deism and theism. All theists have this thing you thought was unique in common. It's what defines you as theists. The notion that we can and have had a personal relationship with gods.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Messages In This Thread
On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Alternatehistory95 - January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nakara - January 17, 2019 at 12:51 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 12:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by no one - January 17, 2019 at 12:56 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Duty - January 17, 2019 at 1:07 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by donlor - January 22, 2019 at 8:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 1:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 2:12 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 3:01 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by zebo-the-fat - January 17, 2019 at 4:09 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nakara - January 18, 2019 at 7:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 19, 2019 at 2:36 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - January 19, 2019 at 6:40 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Duty - January 18, 2019 at 7:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 18, 2019 at 8:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - January 18, 2019 at 3:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 21, 2019 at 2:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:39 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:44 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 5:00 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 10:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 4:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 4:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cecelia - January 17, 2019 at 5:28 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 17, 2019 at 5:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by AFTT47 - January 18, 2019 at 5:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by no one - January 19, 2019 at 5:00 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 21, 2019 at 2:17 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 21, 2019 at 2:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:05 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - January 21, 2019 at 12:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 21, 2019 at 6:16 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - January 22, 2019 at 10:26 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 5:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - February 8, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 8, 2019 at 1:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - January 22, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - January 22, 2019 at 3:32 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 24, 2019 at 3:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 8, 2019 at 6:12 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 9, 2019 at 1:58 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 9, 2019 at 2:24 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 13, 2019 at 3:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 13, 2019 at 4:06 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 14, 2019 at 2:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 14, 2019 at 5:25 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 15, 2019 at 1:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 15, 2019 at 2:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 16, 2019 at 3:19 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 16, 2019 at 9:45 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 18, 2019 at 2:51 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 18, 2019 at 4:22 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 19, 2019 at 3:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 19, 2019 at 5:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 19, 2019 at 7:33 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by downbeatplumb - February 19, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 20, 2019 at 2:32 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 20, 2019 at 8:29 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 8, 2019 at 12:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 8, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 8, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - February 14, 2019 at 12:22 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 14, 2019 at 12:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 1:06 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 15, 2019 at 4:31 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 4:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by FatAndFaithless - February 15, 2019 at 4:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 5:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 15, 2019 at 7:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 15, 2019 at 8:15 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 8:36 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 15, 2019 at 11:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 15, 2019 at 11:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 9:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 16, 2019 at 9:39 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 1:21 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 16, 2019 at 1:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 16, 2019 at 2:24 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 3:02 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 11:18 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 11:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 6:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 7:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 7:37 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 7:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 8:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 8:07 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 7:59 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 8:09 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 2:47 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 8:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 16, 2019 at 11:30 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 17, 2019 at 12:38 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 11:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 11:54 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 1:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 6:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 7:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 8:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 7:25 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 8:00 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 8:35 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 9:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 10:58 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 11:04 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 12:01 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 12:48 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 5:55 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 7:03 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 10:24 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 5:54 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 10:37 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 19, 2019 at 1:37 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 19, 2019 at 3:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 19, 2019 at 4:05 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 18, 2019 at 6:42 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 20, 2019 at 1:59 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 8:21 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 9:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 10:02 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 21, 2019 at 11:20 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 22, 2019 at 3:16 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 22, 2019 at 9:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 17, 2019 at 7:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 1:55 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 17, 2019 at 8:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 17, 2019 at 8:44 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 9:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 10:13 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 12:57 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 6:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 19, 2019 at 9:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 20, 2019 at 4:58 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 20, 2019 at 8:42 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 20, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 9:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 9:44 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:10 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 10:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:34 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:59 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 11:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 1:19 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 1:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 3:57 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 4:54 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 1:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 23, 2019 at 1:54 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 2:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 23, 2019 at 10:18 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 10:48 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 23, 2019 at 2:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 24, 2019 at 3:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 5:22 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:49 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - March 2, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 24, 2019 at 4:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Angrboda - February 24, 2019 at 9:35 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 24, 2019 at 6:31 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 24, 2019 at 6:23 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 24, 2019 at 6:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 10:27 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 25, 2019 at 5:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:25 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 9:01 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 6:17 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 7:57 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 4, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 6, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 2:26 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 1:16 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 4, 2019 at 2:04 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 3:22 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Angrboda - March 9, 2019 at 11:38 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - March 6, 2019 at 11:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 10, 2019 at 4:45 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - March 10, 2019 at 8:26 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - March 10, 2019 at 6:25 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - March 9, 2019 at 10:23 pm

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