How far reaching are God's powers?

[The Grand Nudger]

These are the sorts of things I was wondering.

If we can't be meaningfully good or evil, then how can we deserve anything?  How do we learn, and what use would learning be?  What evil we commit, and what is being punished in others through us?

None of this is cogent outside of a meaningful ability to do or be good or evil.  

I never said we can't be meaningfully good or evil. I do say that we can't be meaningfully good except by God's grace, and that we can't help but be evil due to our nature, also except by His grace.

I've been asking you how we can be good or evil outside of the possession of a meaningfully free will.  

Consider this: when you go to school, does the teacher treat you fairly, or according to your need, assuming he or she is a decent teacher? Likely not fairly, but according to your need, however it needs to be in order for you to learn. So God does the same. He is our teacher, and He tests us rigorously. It's not fun and it's not "fair," but it works.

Keep telling you I'm not worried about the teacher.  I'm wondering about the student.  You suggested that I could exonerate a god if I took it's intentions into account.  If that would be the good thing to do, and I can't do the good thing - then I couldn't do that.

Your problem, I believe, isn't with the process but with the nullification of your agency. Obviously one can learn not to do evil from suffering the consequences of that evil, whether it's in his nature or not to do it. Who says God doesn't provide grace once you've learned your lesson? The problem is that sinners are stubborn, and often must be taught the same lesson many times before it sinks in.

Another problem is that we wish to be good, sometimes more than anything, above all else. And while it seems a lofty goal, it simply isn't possible. You can't become good, you can only walk in God's righteousness once you've been given the grace. And that grace can't be earned.

That wouldn't be my problem, that would be a problem with the concepts as described.   I can't choose good, I cant learn from evil, I do or don't get grace.  How can I learn a lesson, even if I was taught the lesson a billion times - if learning the lesson were the good thing to do...and I'm incapable of good?

True, insofar as you remain unconcerned, if I'm understanding you correctly. It should be relevant, however, because one should always be concerned with the greater good. That's called loving your neighbor as yourself.

If one should always be concerned for the greater good - then I would be incapable of being concerned for the greater good - as I'm incapable of good.  

Well, perhaps I never should have said that it's unfair to a degree. I'm not sure I like the word "fair," because life only seems unfair from the carnal perspective. When one takes into account that God wipes away every tear in the end, then there will be no complaints about how "unfair" things have seemed. The suffering passes away, eventually.

If God having all the power is unfair, and us having no choice unfair, then we must realize it's unfair for a good reason.

Would it have mattered whether you did or didn't say it?  You tell me that a god wipes away every tear like it has a moral debt.  

Things that can do good or evil may be able to accrue moral debt, and they may be able to satisfy that moral debt - this is rather unlike a thing with no free will, don't you think?  If we are a thing with no free will, in what way do we possess a moral agency, and how can we employ it?