(January 7, 2021 at 7:58 pm)Spongebob Wrote:(January 7, 2021 at 7:02 pm)Nomad Wrote: No, Rome disappeared because the system of rule it created simply fell apart because it wasn't capable of holding together a polity of that size, and more importantly because it couldn't check the ambitions of sucessful generals or senators.
The thing is the Germanic tribes only really started winning against Rome when they became Roman.
Sorry, that's an oversimplification. Rome did become far too large to be ruled effectively by one Emperor and for a time it was actually ruled by 4. But the ultimate reason it collapsed was because of the influx of non-Romans into the Italian peninsula who didn't have the same cultural background as the Romans. It was simply a cultural shift. But that happened because Rome has spread so far and wide that it had engulphed too many non-roman cultures. Pressure from Eastern powers (Hans and others) kept pushing the Germanic peoples (many different ones) into the Italian peninsula. They were accepted and ostensibly indoctrinated as Romans, but of course they never were and eventually the region's culture was no longer Roman at all. During it's last vestiges, the Western Empire was not ruled by Romans, but by Germans (who considered themselves Romans). It was the Roman empire in name only. But even that explanation is abbreviated. The idea that ambitions of generals or senators was the problem is incredibly short sighted. That sort of thing began during the republic days, over 1,000 years before the collapse in 476. If you were a Roman general, you had crazy ambition, except for Cincinnatus, of course. And even he was a badass!
(January 7, 2021 at 7:30 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:
I freakin' love this meme!
And your analysis is just plain wrong. Germanic tribes didn't enter into former Roman territories only after Roman power had collapsed in those areas. Look at Roman Britain, that wasn't lost until the then governor pulled out the legions as he thought he cold become emperor by force. And Gaul was largely lost by his actions too because the civil war he started drained the Rhenish legions of their manpower.
It wasn't outside forces causing the collapse of the empire, it was outside forces exploiting the collaps of the empire.
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