RE: Black Pill Dating Theory?
August 24, 2023 at 4:01 am
(This post was last modified: August 24, 2023 at 4:14 am by FrustratedFool.)
"For casual dating, flings, and all that, yes, things like good looks will matter a lot" - Yes. But think of how important this is. Serious relationships often start from casual dating; confidence, social experience, and sexual development are often built through early dating success; and a lot of social judgement can be placed onto people depending upon their success in this realm. It's not like having, or not having, something 'that matters a lot' in this area is a trivial issue.
"But it doesn't mean all hope is lost for people who are deemed physically unattractive by society" - Sure. There is always the chance of something changing. But the question is really about a) plausibility (someone wins the lottery every week, don't they?), and b) the suffering incurred during the wait for those winning lottery numbers.
"When it comes to serious relationships - things like connection, compatibility, comfort are qualities that matter a lot to many people, even moreso than looks, charisma, and wealth in many cases" - totally agree. But since practically no one dates someone they aren't physically attracted to, or find repulsive, all those things are locked behind the door of a minimum looks threshold. You have to be at least non-repulsive, and usually attractive, to someone for them to even want to get to develop a romantic relationship with you. Relationships that have no sexual attraction or physical chemistry between partners are miserable affairs that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. There has to be mutual sexual attraction as well as the compatibility etc. And that's a problem for those who aren't attractive to the majority of people.
"I've seen a lot of people who aren't exactly attractive physically be in relationships" - Sure. Most people are average. But how many ugly people have you seen in successful relationships? And more importantly, for every ugly person in a successful relationship how many aren't? One thing I've noticed about lonely people (all genders) is that they are often quite invisible. They are sat home alone, or drink in late night bars, and so on. They go unnoticed.
"And there are a lot of physically attractive people who have never been in a relationship even while they're nearing their thirties or twenties" - I have only encountered attractive 30+ year olds who have never had a relationship if it is either by choice (maybe religious influence), or because they have social issues, or they are asexual.
"Sometimes it's all about just being somewhere at the right place and time"- Luck is the biggest factor here for sure.
"You might even be deemed unattractive "universally" but someone will still find something cute and adorably quirky about you and love you for it" - I think this a false romantic message. There are no guarantees. In a world of 8 billion it might be technically true that at least someone will find you attractive, but in practical terms the chances of meeting that person in your area at the right time is low. I think many underestimate how many people live and die lonely without ever having a successful relationship.
"Incels need to learn to take ownership and not continue to blame others for their faliures." I agree. But I'm talking more broadly than incels. I'm talking unattractive and lonely people in general. I think you are here falling into something akin to victim blaming. If someone is ugly or highly socially awkward it isn't their fault, it's just bad genetic luck. It's not about blaming them, or about blaming others for not finding them attractive. It's just a roll of the dice. No blame for anyone at all.
"They don't need to be the hottest guy in town to be in relationships, but they need to be pleasant, genuine, the opposite of entitled and stop trying to be something they're not. Having a good presentation" - Agreed. But they also need to be found physically attractive by some people. They need to meet a minimum looks threshold, and the more attractive someone is the easier their dating life will be.
As for me being a bad example for my point - I don't consider/rate myself as ugly. I'm a 4 or 5. And my lived experience, even as that slightly below average type, is that I was bullied extensively between 11-20 for my looks (which left me mentally ill); I married a woman I wasn't attracted to and had a highly toxic, sexless, miserable relationship (which made me even more mentally ill); and then I got a highly unlikely relationship with a mentally ill girlfriend who has a thing for much older people who I was attracted to when I was 46. That is the sum total of my relationships.
If being bullied into illness and not having a mutually attracted relationship until middle age when not even being as ugly as some is an argument against my point, I dread to think of the miserable lives of those who do support my point.
"But it doesn't mean all hope is lost for people who are deemed physically unattractive by society" - Sure. There is always the chance of something changing. But the question is really about a) plausibility (someone wins the lottery every week, don't they?), and b) the suffering incurred during the wait for those winning lottery numbers.
"When it comes to serious relationships - things like connection, compatibility, comfort are qualities that matter a lot to many people, even moreso than looks, charisma, and wealth in many cases" - totally agree. But since practically no one dates someone they aren't physically attracted to, or find repulsive, all those things are locked behind the door of a minimum looks threshold. You have to be at least non-repulsive, and usually attractive, to someone for them to even want to get to develop a romantic relationship with you. Relationships that have no sexual attraction or physical chemistry between partners are miserable affairs that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. There has to be mutual sexual attraction as well as the compatibility etc. And that's a problem for those who aren't attractive to the majority of people.
"I've seen a lot of people who aren't exactly attractive physically be in relationships" - Sure. Most people are average. But how many ugly people have you seen in successful relationships? And more importantly, for every ugly person in a successful relationship how many aren't? One thing I've noticed about lonely people (all genders) is that they are often quite invisible. They are sat home alone, or drink in late night bars, and so on. They go unnoticed.
"And there are a lot of physically attractive people who have never been in a relationship even while they're nearing their thirties or twenties" - I have only encountered attractive 30+ year olds who have never had a relationship if it is either by choice (maybe religious influence), or because they have social issues, or they are asexual.
"Sometimes it's all about just being somewhere at the right place and time"- Luck is the biggest factor here for sure.
"You might even be deemed unattractive "universally" but someone will still find something cute and adorably quirky about you and love you for it" - I think this a false romantic message. There are no guarantees. In a world of 8 billion it might be technically true that at least someone will find you attractive, but in practical terms the chances of meeting that person in your area at the right time is low. I think many underestimate how many people live and die lonely without ever having a successful relationship.
"Incels need to learn to take ownership and not continue to blame others for their faliures." I agree. But I'm talking more broadly than incels. I'm talking unattractive and lonely people in general. I think you are here falling into something akin to victim blaming. If someone is ugly or highly socially awkward it isn't their fault, it's just bad genetic luck. It's not about blaming them, or about blaming others for not finding them attractive. It's just a roll of the dice. No blame for anyone at all.
"They don't need to be the hottest guy in town to be in relationships, but they need to be pleasant, genuine, the opposite of entitled and stop trying to be something they're not. Having a good presentation" - Agreed. But they also need to be found physically attractive by some people. They need to meet a minimum looks threshold, and the more attractive someone is the easier their dating life will be.
As for me being a bad example for my point - I don't consider/rate myself as ugly. I'm a 4 or 5. And my lived experience, even as that slightly below average type, is that I was bullied extensively between 11-20 for my looks (which left me mentally ill); I married a woman I wasn't attracted to and had a highly toxic, sexless, miserable relationship (which made me even more mentally ill); and then I got a highly unlikely relationship with a mentally ill girlfriend who has a thing for much older people who I was attracted to when I was 46. That is the sum total of my relationships.
If being bullied into illness and not having a mutually attracted relationship until middle age when not even being as ugly as some is an argument against my point, I dread to think of the miserable lives of those who do support my point.
