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Current time: May 25, 2024, 10:46 am

Poll: Which one describes philosophy as an academic discipline?
This poll is closed.
Useful
78.57%
11 78.57%
Useless
21.43%
3 21.43%
Total 14 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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How worthless is Philosophy?
#18
RE: How worthless is Philosophy?
(November 14, 2023 at 11:59 pm)Orbit Wrote: Actually, as a college instructor, I'm going to disagree with you, but for a different reason than you might be expecting. We were having a meeting with faculty in my program (Sociology) today, and the big complaint was that "undergrads can't write, even after they've had the required lower-level English composition courses". I said that it's not that they can't write, it's that they can't think. They have no idea what an argument is (other than a fight). Logic is alien to them. The basic idea of the scientific method is missing. And then they write, but because they can't think in the first place, what comes out is seldom a clear exposition of well, anything.

Philosophy, as a lower-level General Education-type class, is super valuable in teaching undergrads of any major what counts as an argument, how to support your argument, and what logic and logical fallacies are. I think every undergrad should have a class in philosophy at that kind of level at least. In social science, students need to conceptualize a research question, define their terms, and decide how to measure what they need to measure. Philosophy prepares them to do that. I know they aren't ready for formal instruction in epistemology at that level, but I want them to at least know how to think before they arrive in my Social Research Methods class.

Very good points here, and good to hear from someone actively involved in the profession.

If the kind of class you describe is what we're calling "philosophy," then I agree that it would be extremely useful. For college and for anyone who wants to think and discuss clearly. 

Probably when I think of philosophy, I think of what comes next, after the course you describe. That is, the class you describe tells us what  the tools are and how to use them, while philosophy is what one does with the tools that one has mastered. General Education would include "what counts as an argument, how to support your argument, and what logic and logical fallacies are" as crucial knowledge. Philosophy would put this knowledge to use in discussing issues like "what is a good life?" or "what should government do for people?" 

Basically I think you're describing what used to be called the Trivium, the first three parts of the seven Liberal Arts. One doesn't do philosophy until one has a basic grasp of all seven. 

But here I'm not fighting with you, I'm just defining terms. It depends on what we mean by "philosophy."
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Messages In This Thread
How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - November 14, 2023 at 7:30 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Foxaèr - November 14, 2023 at 7:37 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 14, 2023 at 7:45 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 14, 2023 at 7:57 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Anomalocaris - November 15, 2023 at 7:47 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2023 at 7:51 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - November 14, 2023 at 8:46 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 14, 2023 at 7:53 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Thumpalumpacus - November 14, 2023 at 8:38 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2023 at 9:06 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 14, 2023 at 9:15 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by arewethereyet - November 14, 2023 at 9:19 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 14, 2023 at 9:26 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2023 at 9:19 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by arewethereyet - November 14, 2023 at 9:47 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Fireball - November 14, 2023 at 11:34 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by brewer - November 14, 2023 at 11:39 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Orbit - November 14, 2023 at 11:59 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 12:51 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Brian37 - November 15, 2023 at 1:28 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - November 15, 2023 at 1:56 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by FrustratedFool - November 15, 2023 at 4:41 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 6:36 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 15, 2023 at 6:40 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 7:02 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 15, 2023 at 7:16 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 7:54 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 15, 2023 at 8:12 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 8:28 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 15, 2023 at 8:51 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 15, 2023 at 5:27 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 15, 2023 at 7:02 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by FrustratedFool - November 15, 2023 at 7:10 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Magic Pudding. - November 15, 2023 at 7:17 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 8:01 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by FrustratedFool - November 15, 2023 at 8:18 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - November 15, 2023 at 8:31 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 8:40 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 15, 2023 at 8:57 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 15, 2023 at 11:58 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 15, 2023 at 12:44 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by GUBU - November 19, 2023 at 6:12 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 15, 2023 at 7:29 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 15, 2023 at 8:29 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 9:36 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 15, 2023 at 9:51 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 10:21 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 15, 2023 at 10:30 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 15, 2023 at 10:31 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 15, 2023 at 10:32 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - November 15, 2023 at 7:38 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Nanny - November 16, 2023 at 9:37 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 16, 2023 at 10:27 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2023 at 10:29 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Bucky Ball - November 16, 2023 at 2:55 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 17, 2023 at 11:13 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Bucky Ball - November 18, 2023 at 6:11 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Bucky Ball - November 20, 2023 at 6:00 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by arewethereyet - November 20, 2023 at 6:06 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 21, 2023 at 11:44 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Bucky Ball - November 21, 2023 at 7:17 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 13, 2024 at 3:35 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - February 14, 2024 at 7:00 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Fireball - November 17, 2023 at 11:23 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 18, 2023 at 10:27 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 19, 2023 at 9:42 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Nanny - November 21, 2023 at 11:18 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2023 at 1:51 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - November 19, 2023 at 10:08 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 19, 2023 at 10:13 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Variachial - November 21, 2023 at 1:00 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 22, 2023 at 6:45 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Variachial - November 22, 2023 at 10:22 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - November 23, 2023 at 2:54 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2023 at 11:55 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 23, 2023 at 1:49 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 22, 2023 at 10:46 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 22, 2023 at 10:59 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 22, 2023 at 11:26 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 22, 2023 at 12:39 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 22, 2023 at 1:13 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - November 22, 2023 at 1:24 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 22, 2023 at 3:04 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 13, 2024 at 6:03 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 13, 2024 at 6:09 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 13, 2024 at 8:08 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 15, 2024 at 5:26 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by neil - February 14, 2024 at 9:46 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - February 14, 2024 at 10:19 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - February 15, 2024 at 2:35 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 14, 2024 at 11:27 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 26, 2024 at 11:01 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by no one - February 14, 2024 at 9:34 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 15, 2024 at 10:28 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - February 15, 2024 at 12:10 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 16, 2024 at 12:38 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Ahriman - February 16, 2024 at 2:10 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Anomalocaris - February 16, 2024 at 10:25 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 1:48 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2024 at 12:04 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 12:50 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2024 at 1:14 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 1:26 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2024 at 1:49 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 4:21 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2024 at 1:24 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 1:31 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by brewer - February 27, 2024 at 10:56 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 1:34 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2024 at 10:29 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2024 at 11:25 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 5:08 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2024 at 5:13 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 5:21 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2024 at 7:57 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by brewer - February 27, 2024 at 1:48 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Foxaèr - February 27, 2024 at 1:54 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by brewer - February 27, 2024 at 1:58 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2024 at 4:42 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 5:27 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2024 at 5:47 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 6:15 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by HappySkeptic - February 27, 2024 at 6:31 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 6:48 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by HappySkeptic - February 27, 2024 at 7:20 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by vulcanlogician - February 27, 2024 at 7:34 pm
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by Cog - May 20, 2024 at 12:52 am
RE: How worthless is Philosophy? - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2024 at 12:19 pm

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