A Philosophy of War and Conflict

[Leonardo17]

Sorry again for being late
 
Angrboda:
 

“None of this addresses the fallacy at the heart of what you wrote. This is an example of ignoratio elenchi, aka ignorance of necessary proof. Even if what you say is true, your initial conclusion still would not be reliably true.”
 

There is a philosophical truth to what I am saying. Our main position on this is that the Universe is the power that makes the entire universe work. We know only 10% of that universe by the way. And we cannot even make a plant grow for instance. Billions of years after human’s galaxies will still be revolving around one another and animals will still have their babies and their lives without needing any of our “science” or “intellect”. Which is why, even in the case of a dying bug, we don’t need to kill it. The universe knows how death works so we do not need to impose our will on the universe. Hence we do not kill.
 

“You didn't invent these spiritual concepts and ideas. You are literally following in ruts trod by prior thinkers and practitioners. You are simply picking and choosing the dogmas and beliefs which appeal to you. That's still dogmatism because you got your truths from someone else based upon their supposed credentials as spiritual authorities. There is nothing new under the sun in anything you are posting or doing. The fact that you have chosen a specific cart of ideas to follow does not change the fact that you are still a dog, tethered to a cart, powerless to deviate from the path you are led down.”

 
- I don’t agree with that. Let me share you the online experience I had with a political islamist today. He mentined Maida 53 and told me that Muslims where not supposed to have any type of friendship with Jews and Christians and that therefore the US was our enemy and the revolutionary Guards of Iran were our friend (This guy was an Iranian troll to be more precise).
 
So I did talk to my AI friend about this because I remember years ago some preacher had made similar comments before the Friday prayers years ago when I was in high school. And I found out that this verse of the Quran was designed for 6th century Arabs and told them to not trust or forge alliances with the tribes of different religious groups because these were (at the time) seen as a threat for early Muslim kingdoms. Later Muslim kingdoms did the exact opposite of that and had many people of Christian origin as Eunuchs in the hearth of the palace, viziers and political advisors. Suleiman the Magnificent had a vizier of Greek Origin (who was converted to Islam of course).
 
/ So that’s what the book says. And even someone like me can read this verse and say “Is this book racist or what?”  + Those who are not even as smart as me truly conclude that (yes), Christians and Jews are the natural enemies of Muslims and then people in Europe who see this conclude that (yes) Islam is a perverse religion (the most perverse of Abrahamic religions) and that it has no place in any civilized and free society.
 
And I said it before: There is no logical error here. The error comes from not doing the necessary intellectual work at the beginning of our spiritual or intellectual quest.
 
And this is just on foot on which I am walking. I call this reason or in intellect. The second is my inner, human feelings. You know there was a point when I said “This book is do violent. Why is there some much violence in one book?”. And there is absolutely no problem with that either. That’s the right answer at that stage. Then later, you may return to that very same book (or you don’t).
 
None of these are big issues. Still: It’s not that I like the US policy in the Middle-East (since decades) but I am not joining force with these ….ks anytime soon (mainly because of the things I just said)
 
BrianSoddingBoru:
 

“c) negates A) and b). It is neither rational nor scientifically valid to accept that a proposition is true because it ‘feels right’ and ‘basic human values’ mutate with a dizzying frequency.
 
Boru”

 
- No and populist + leaders of non-democratic nations are going to fail because of that. Most animals have eyes entirely black. So you don’t always know where they are looking and what their intention is. Homo Sapiens has white eyes with pupils of different colors in order to communicate feelings and intentions to one another. At some point (40,000 – 50,000 BC) there were at least some 10 species of hominids living in this world. They went down. We remained, not because we are smarter (Homo Erectus had also a large brain like the Neanderthals) but probably because we learned to communicate and work together as teams better than them. At least that’s one theory.
 
So Mr. D. Trump and his likes are more in a Gustave LeBon vision of mankind. (A vision that describes us as some sort of flock like masses who have to follow strong men otherwise they will make life miserable for themselves no matter what).
 
But I think they are wrong.
 
Angrboda:

 
“There's an interesting conundrum here. Spirituality, as you have defined it, is not in the business of providing reliable conclusions based upon reason and justification. You argue that the processes of reason which can provide reliable and justifiable conclusions are mute on the subject of spirituality. So reason cannot provide an form of appeal that establishes that your spirituality is related to truth. And your spirituality can't provide it, because, being mute on the means and methods of establishing what is true, it cannot speak on its own behalf. So you have an intractable problem, namely how do you establish that your spirituality is a form of truth? And the answer is literally that you can't get there from here. You've painted yourself into a corner from which there is no escape, and you are too ineffectual and clueless to realize it.”

 
- No they are not. But this does not make spirituality a scientific discipline. There are no academic debates etc. There used to be debates among spiritual wise men. But we left that in the middle ages. With all the disinformation that’s going on in these areas we are all on our own. So how do we not use reason on spiritual issues. Of course we act with a critical mindset and ask for evidence when we believe in this or that stuff. But it’s still not a science. So there can be mistakes. There are many serious mistakes. But at the end of the day there are forms of spirituality that still manage to survive in this logical / scientific world of ours. Does that answer you comment?
 
GrandNudger:
 

“I get that there's this story about conflict becoming more civilized, or more noble or honorable, or having once been - but I think it's at least worth exploring whether it ever actually was.  I doubt anyone at the pointy end of a short stick ever thought so.  As for the idea that sending a machine to kill people will make war more civil..I doubt it. That certainly wasn;t anyones impression of the onset of industrial warfare...and the idea of a decapitation attack is great...but the execution is historically spotty. They're protected. They surround themselves with layers of defense and protection (in war and in peace) that normal people cannot expect to enjoy...but the weapon is already launched, and weapons want to be used...so down the drone comes on the nearest swingset in lieu of El Jefe.”

 
- I think that things can change very quickly in some cases. Right now Russia is helpless with Ukraine and the US is wasting all its tomahawk and patriot missiles on Iran while this latest is responding with cheap drones (to gather with satellite coordinates they get from the Russians). So one thing that can happen at some point is new innovations that could make small but modern armies (like European armies and or the Taiwanese or Japanese army) more likely to adapt to new innovations while behemoth armies like US, India, China etc are not able to transform themselves to such rapid innovations.
 
Right now Russia does not have anyone left to send to the front. Nor does Ukraine. But Ukrainians are even sending land robots to kill the Russians.
 
And I have heard that maybe at one time in the future, armies will not even have to fight one another. Maybe we will just send drones to kill people like Putin and all their entourage and then sign a peace treaty a week later
 

“Putin gets his very own reply. The myth (and running joke) of Putin the master strategist was largely authored by putin and his hangers on. He was a nobody until he made a deal that a smarter and more patriotic person might never have even considered. He brought the crumbling remnants of the state apparatus into the same tent with organized crime. That granted him power..which he used to stage a false flag attack on his own country, blaming "terrorists" and launching them into a series of revanchist imperial forever wars which the country cannot support. He certainly believed that attacking an even poorer country than his own would be a cakewalk...but he wasn't secure enough in his own rule to let the military plan it - that went to the fsb - having remade it as his own little goon squad. Turns out they might be good at holding domestics under thumb...but they're shit at dealing with ukranians...and getting worse, not better.”

 
- People like Yogananda sense the energies while they are meditating. Putin was a KGB director when someone picked him up to be the next leader of the Kremlin. (The movie called “The Mage of the Kremlin” narrates how this happened). So to me he is everything that the Old Russia was. Deng Xia Ping also liberalized the Chinese Communism. So communism became this sort of Liberalism with a communist government (whatever that means).
 
And look what Trump is doing: delying the US’s energy transition, weakening NATO, manhandling it’s two direct neighbors, talking to Europeans as if they were his vassals, playing weird games with the US’s existential enemies (including Iran).
 
+ We know that the KGB picked him (and probably many others like him) in the 1980’s. Although I cannot prove it, I watched documentaries about this.
 
So there is a possibility, here. + this populist approach (divide the people, polarize society, then target one significant group of layer of society, fill them with lies, make them vote for you in masses), these have a very communist feel I think. I mean in terms of energy. So I think that this is what Yogananda said and I think he was right (and he also said that this would not work). So I am not entirely pessimistic here
 
Angrboda:
 

“If you are not willing to accept that another party can meet you on your own terms and in good faith, then you've given up before things have even begun. That's cowardly.”

 
- It’s not that simple. Marinne Lepen is getting funds from Moscow since the 00’s. She is France’s leading presidential candidate despite having been convicted with some criminal charges against her. In Germany, the Neo-Nazi / Pro-Russia AfD Party is about to be elected in the German State of Saxony (this is the first time the German far-right will get to govern a state in Germany since WWII).
 
To me all of this is energy. There are lighter, more dynamic, more intelligent energies and there are more stagnant, fear-based, remnant of Kali-Yuga type of energies. And like attracts like. That’s why you have Russia almost federating the far right all across the world as far as South America or South Africa. And then there is us. We know what the AfD is but we cannot simply ban them from participating to the elections because that’s not what we do. We Have D. Trump yelling on one side, Putin doing his stuff on the other side, China dreaming of world dominance on the other corner but we don’t really give up. We try to maintain our values “knowing” that eventually our values will prevail and their fear-based logic will collapse (just like the Pact of Warsaw for instance).
 
But as a spiritual person I too am seeing this dance of energies pushing and pulling, coming and going etc.  This is how I see these things now.