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Come to England
#73
RE: Come to England
(February 14, 2012 at 1:58 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(February 14, 2012 at 1:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: It is sentience we respect and have moral obligations toward, not genetics.

Define exactly what you mean by "sentience".

Sentience is the "I" that we mean when we say "I am". It is the state of being self-aware of one's own existence. It is the ability to experience reality.

We have moral obligations toward other sentient beings. We empathize with their feelings of pain and fear. We identify with their yearning for rights and liberty. We are evolved as social animals and a secular understanding of morality typically hinges on that sense of connection and desire for social justice.

We have no moral obligations toward things that do not think, do not feel and do not have any capacity for self-awareness. You can't torture a rock. You can't murder a chair. These are things which don't feel pain, fear or any other kind of experience.

A single-cell organism is a thing. It has no brain by which to experience reality or operate on any basis other than automated stimulus-response. We think nothing of taking anti-biotics and thereby cause a holocaust of microscopic beings. Nor should we.

At conception, the zygote is a thing. It is no more a sentient being than an amoeba. Significant brain development, on the scale needed for sentience, doesn't occur until week 21, well after the 1st trimester. It is only after this point that the developing fetus begins to respond to outside stimulus.

I'm speaking as one who used to be "pro-life". My argument then was "person A's right to life trumps person B's right to choice". When I studied fetal development, I realized there was no "person A" and so the entire foundation of my beliefs was gone. I've been "pro-choice" ever since.
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Messages In This Thread
Come to England - by Darwinian - February 10, 2012 at 7:02 am
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 10, 2012 at 7:28 am
RE: Come to England - by orogenicman - February 10, 2012 at 7:46 am
RE: Come to England - by Napoléon - February 10, 2012 at 8:27 am
RE: Come to England - by AthiestAtheist - February 10, 2012 at 11:20 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 10, 2012 at 12:16 pm
RE: Come to England - by padraic - February 10, 2012 at 8:00 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 10, 2012 at 8:15 pm
RE: Come to England - by Norfolk And Chance - February 12, 2012 at 9:40 am
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 10, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Come to England - by kılıç_mehmet - February 10, 2012 at 12:52 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 10, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Come to England - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 10, 2012 at 2:41 pm
RE: Come to England - by Doubting Thomas - February 10, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 10, 2012 at 4:12 pm
RE: Come to England - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 4:29 pm
RE: Come to England - by Whateverist - February 11, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 10, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: Come to England - by Minimalist - February 17, 2012 at 3:25 pm
RE: Come to England - by Welsh cake - February 10, 2012 at 6:57 pm
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 10, 2012 at 7:20 pm
RE: Come to England - by Welsh cake - February 10, 2012 at 7:56 pm
RE: Come to England - by Darth - February 10, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Come to England - by teblin - February 11, 2012 at 2:58 pm
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 11, 2012 at 5:26 pm
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 12, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: Come to England - by The Grand Nudger - February 11, 2012 at 3:46 pm
RE: Come to England - by Epimethean - February 11, 2012 at 4:03 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 12, 2012 at 10:38 am
RE: Come to England - by The Grand Nudger - February 12, 2012 at 10:57 am
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 12, 2012 at 10:58 am
RE: Come to England - by downbeatplumb - February 12, 2012 at 1:33 pm
RE: Come to England - by Whateverist - February 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm
RE: Come to England - by passionatefool - February 12, 2012 at 2:47 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 12, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 12, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 12, 2012 at 5:50 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 12, 2012 at 5:52 pm
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 12, 2012 at 5:53 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 12, 2012 at 6:00 pm
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 12, 2012 at 6:03 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 12, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Come to England - by padraic - February 12, 2012 at 6:31 pm
RE: Come to England - by Chuff - February 14, 2012 at 4:24 am
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2012 at 1:07 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 4:44 am
RE: Come to England - by Chuff - February 14, 2012 at 4:56 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 4:58 am
RE: Come to England - by Chuff - February 14, 2012 at 5:07 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 5:23 am
RE: Come to England - by Chuff - February 14, 2012 at 5:36 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 5:48 am
RE: Come to England - by Chuff - February 14, 2012 at 6:04 am
RE: Come to England - by MrSkeptic - February 14, 2012 at 6:26 am
RE: Come to England - by KichigaiNeko - February 14, 2012 at 8:14 am
RE: Come to England - by leo-rcc - February 14, 2012 at 8:20 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 8:42 am
RE: Come to England - by MrSkeptic - February 14, 2012 at 1:46 pm
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2012 at 1:50 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 1:58 pm
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2012 at 2:53 pm
RE: Come to England - by genkaus - February 14, 2012 at 4:36 pm
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2012 at 5:21 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 5:16 pm
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 14, 2012 at 8:51 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 9:06 am
RE: Come to England - by Chuff - February 14, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: Come to England - by Doubting Thomas - February 14, 2012 at 12:08 pm
RE: Come to England - by Napoléon - February 14, 2012 at 12:50 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 14, 2012 at 12:48 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 14, 2012 at 12:51 pm
RE: Come to England - by Napoléon - February 14, 2012 at 12:53 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 14, 2012 at 12:54 pm
RE: Come to England - by Napoléon - February 14, 2012 at 12:55 pm
RE: Come to England - by MrSkeptic - February 14, 2012 at 1:57 pm
RE: Come to England - by Doubting Thomas - February 14, 2012 at 2:21 pm
RE: Come to England - by Napoléon - February 14, 2012 at 2:54 pm
RE: Come to England - by padraic - February 14, 2012 at 4:53 pm
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2012 at 3:06 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 14, 2012 at 3:00 pm
RE: Come to England - by Jackalope - February 14, 2012 at 3:41 pm
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 14, 2012 at 3:09 pm
RE: Come to England - by Doubting Thomas - February 14, 2012 at 3:31 pm
RE: Come to England - by thesummerqueen - February 14, 2012 at 5:14 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tobie - February 14, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Come to England - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 17, 2012 at 8:46 am
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 17, 2012 at 11:36 am
RE: Come to England - by jason56 - February 14, 2012 at 8:03 pm
RE: Come to England - by bozo - February 16, 2012 at 8:24 am
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 16, 2012 at 8:39 am
RE: Come to England - by Tiberius - February 16, 2012 at 9:35 am
RE: Come to England - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 17, 2012 at 12:17 pm
RE: Come to England - by Ziploc Surprise - February 17, 2012 at 2:37 pm
RE: Come to England - by DeistPaladin - February 18, 2012 at 1:21 am
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 17, 2012 at 3:34 pm
RE: Come to England - by bozo - February 18, 2012 at 5:58 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tobie - February 19, 2012 at 3:49 pm
RE: Come to England - by frankiej - February 19, 2012 at 3:52 pm
RE: Come to England - by Tobie - February 19, 2012 at 3:54 pm
RE: Come to England - by frankiej - February 19, 2012 at 3:55 pm
RE: Come to England - by 5thHorseman - February 19, 2012 at 3:56 pm
RE: Come to England - by frankiej - February 19, 2012 at 3:59 pm
RE: Come to England - by LEDO - February 19, 2012 at 6:04 pm

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