RE: Non-existence
August 10, 2009 at 9:34 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2009 at 9:34 pm by LukeMC.)
(August 10, 2009 at 9:08 pm)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 10, 2009 at 8:57 pm)LukeMC Wrote: No. Solipsism states that the mind exists. In our minds, we experience a universe. One way or another, the universe is there. If it is inside our minds then our minds fabricated the entire universe and all of its wonder and complexities, then forgot about doing this and began experiencing the universe in 1st person as an agent of it. If it is outside of our minds, we are agents of it and can learn to know it- even if without certainty. In both cases, we are only sure of the mind. In the former case, there is an immense amount of complexity assumed.No. Solipsism solely states that the mind exists. It does not state anything else. It is the most reduced ontology, because it does not state that reality exists, and positing the existence of reality is more complex than not doing so, but the mind exists in either case and is unescapable.
Where are you losing me? Did I claim that solipsism makes other statements?
Jon Paul Wrote:That solipsism does not seem to be feasible or likely given the knowledge we derive from sense-data about the universe, does nothing to say anything about the amount of complexity it proposes. For that sense-data and those intuitions about the world would exist even if solipsism was false, and reality existed. The difference would be that on top of the sense-data in your conscious mind, everything that sense-data records would be actually existing outside your mind, ON TOP of your conscious mind, which is far more complex.
What you are talking about is the absurdity and counter-intuitiveness of solipsism of course. But that is not a rational ground for rejecting it, nor for calling it complex. It posites only 1 ontological entity and reality: your conscious mind. Realism and the belief in other minds posites the existence of a 100 billion ontological entities alone in the number of conscious minds we know to have existed; and many more in the number of unconscious entities that are real.
My bolding.
And within that mind exists the thoughts and feelings of the possessor, as well as the experiences with the billions of other would-be ontologically independent minds and the rest of the stuff that comes with it. A mind capable of inventing and maintaining this is far more complex as an entity than an objective universe full of beings. I think you stress far too much importance on existence as a quality. I don't think it is the holy grail of complexity. I think it far more simple that a trillion beings exist in one universe than one being -which spontanesouly and unexplainably poofed into existence with the processing power to create a vast and complex universe in which would-be ontologically independent beings exist and live out their lives as if the universe were objective and outside the mind- exists. It's all balony. Much simpler to have a universe. In the same way no god is less complex than an all-powerful, super-complex god. This being with the mind is basically as stupidly complex as a god, now that I think about it. It is far more complex than the universe, and the process by which it came into existence is surely a mystery.