Morality

[Drich]

I say that to help those looking to frame questions based on "morality." Most of the time it is used an absolute standard when in fact it is not.

Says who?

You just did right here:

I think most would agree morality is definitely relative according to the society which creates it.

I have said the same thing. Because it changes from society to society generation to generation, it by definition can not be an absolute standard. For absolute standards never change.

Righteousness is the application of an absolute morality which appears absurd during changes in the moral zeitgeist.

Perhaps from a pop culture perspective.

There are some relative morality which are universal, murder has always been one of these things,not because of righteousness, but because some rules simply cannot persist in a successful society in order for it to survive.

Wrong again murder in the right circumstance was sanctioned by various societies; Rome, 1940's Germany Even in the United States Manifest destiny demanded the murder of millions of Native Americans on a private and on a governmental level.

What made murder ok then and what makes it not ok now is the "moral" justification of the popular culture. which makes morality a variable standard and not an absolute one.

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How do you define gods "righteousness"?

Righteousness is the perfect standard of God.

What does that mean to you?

It means to obtain God's righteousness through my actions, I would have to live a life with out sin. As Jesus demonstrated in Mt 5 it is not possible.

Another question.

If you had to lie in order to save the lives of others would you do so?

without question, because I am a moral man. (not a righteous one through my work thought or deeds.)

Even though it means committing a "sin"

Yes, that is what atonement is for. Atonement is the gift of God's Righteousness bestowed on any and all who accept it. That means one can live a "moral" life and is not forced to live a righteous one, as the only way to obtain true or God's righteousness.

And if not, why not?

Why indeed, anyone claiming true righteousness is a liar or mentally disturbed. Again Christ in MT 5 raise the bar so high we do not have any choice but to seek atonement. Before Christ "completed the Law" it was hard but still possible to live righteously. However since Christ included the attitudes and condition of one's heart to the Expressed Will of God/Righteousness it is all but impossible to truly live righteously. Therefore we must seek atonement. If we have atonement and one does not lie to save his friend's life then he commits murder by the way of his own self righteousness.

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[quote='Drich']
Righteousness says: it is always a sin to lie no matter what the reason.

This is the problem that people have with your ultimate standard of morality as it attempts to make black and white issues out of very gray ones.

So I ask you this question. Is it always wrong to sin, or in other words, is it a sin for me to lie even when it will save someone's life?

Check out my last post for more detail.

In short it is always wrong to sin, but atonement offered through Christ washes away that sin.

We by the works and words of Christ in Mt 5 we are in a constant state of sin which makes it impossible to obtain righteousness any other way besides atonement. The Atonement Christ offers is a gift, not one that any of us deserves, (By our works) yet it is still offered to all who would accept it.

That means there are no grey areas, we are in God's expressed will or we are not. Grey areas allow us to justify our deeds. if we do this then we do not need to seek atonement. If we do not seek atonement then no matter what we decide in life we will be judged unworthy of God, by the way of the sins we have explained away.

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You are still saying that the lie told to save lives is a sin, which is what Cinjin was saying.

Indeed it is. To lie is to sin no matter what.

A sin is defined as anything not in the Expressed Will of God. We are told by God (You shall not lie)

Therefore any lie for any reason is a sin.

(Maybe you should ask will God still love you if you lie) If you decide to ask this then read the last two posts.

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I just got a little nauseous. This sentiment is what makes Christians frightening and Muslims terrifying. Why you may ask? Because "god's will" is decided by the person wielding the weapon in question and most often, when the violent "hand of god" has completed the atrocity, you'll hear the words, "blessed be the name of the Lord."

That would be true if as you believe there was no God.

However "God's will" is clearly printed in our bibles. If we were to smash babies or planes into buildings then I would not be here talking to you.

That said, it is the will of God that has me seek and save those who I can, that I answer questions and turn the other cheek (for the most part) when you guys go off reservation, it is also God's will that I forgive as I have been forgiven which is why I took the time to write out the second half of my illustration, and why I do not gloat when I can. God's will is very clearly spelled out in the bible, for any and all who seek it. a perversion of that will in the name of God is not only the fault of the one who speaks it, it is the fault of the one who blindly follows.

I agree blind devotion is freightening, but it is the will of God that every man be held accountable to his actions.