RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 8:53 pm
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2012 at 8:57 pm by Ryft.)
(May 7, 2012 at 12:03 pm)JesusLover Wrote: I could argue that you are a figment of my imagination, like a person in a dream.
Only on pain of logical contradiction.
Assuming solipsism for the sake of argument, it would follow that the pronoun "I" is a meaningless term that has no distinguishable referent since everything is an aspect of your self. The fact that you think the pronoun "I" is intelligible and has a distinguishable referent (your self) exposes that you believe that others exist. (Otherwise what does "I" mean and what is it distinguished from?)
Therefore, skepticism about or denial of the existence of others while simultaneously using the first-person nominative pronoun as though it has a distinguishable referent produces a logical contradiction—that you at once both believe and do not believe that others exist.
And if others exist then, by virtue of not being aspects of your self, their sentient consciousness is not yours.
"Would it not be better to accept that I can never know if other people are self-aware like me?" No, because logical contradictions are intellectual suicide. They fall apart by themselves. Your every thought and utterance demonstrates that you do know others exist independent of your self; such a-priori knowledge is reason enough to accept that you know others exist, to which you can add a-posteriori knowledge.
(May 7, 2012 at 3:05 pm)JesusLover Wrote: My point was that it was unfair to dismiss the possibility that God/Gods exist due to a lack of evidence. ... [It] is unwise to dismiss the possibility that God exists.
Given enough experience with atheists, you should soon come to realize that most of them do accept the possibility that some God or other exists. The only exception would be ‘hard’ atheists, for whom logic is an ever-present terror (and just about anyone can eat them for lunch). What most atheists dismiss is that a God does exist, and anyone who claims that a God does exist shoulders the burden of making that case. Maybe a God does exist; maybe not; either way, that is just what possible means. If you want them to accept that God is not merely possible but actual, then you have to make that case. Until then, they continue to dismiss that a God exists.
(May 7, 2012 at 3:05 pm)JesusLover Wrote: To claim [that] you are 100% certain something doesn't exist when you have such limited knowledge of the universe is illogical.
It is only illogical if such a claim is not supported by evidence that is equally as certain.
(May 7, 2012 at 1:31 pm)JesusLover Wrote: The primary 'reason' you should believe in the possibility that God exists is that there are so many questions unanswered by science.
The Godidit deity you worship is so tiny, and growing ever smaller as science continues to answer more and more questions.
(May 7, 2012 at 12:31 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:(May 7, 2012 at 12:03 pm)JesusLover Wrote: Using atheist logic
Atheist what?
I agree, Welsh Cake — teh logic: athiests haz none.
(I know that is not what you meant, but it amuses me to pretend it is.)
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)