Atheism is the punk rock of religion

[fr0d0]

So let me see if I can't make this clear enough for even you to understand Raphael

Given this:

"re·li·gion
noun /riˈlijən/ 
religions, plural

A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
- consumerism is the new religion

Something that someone ascribes supreme importance to, ie consumerism, = religion

You agreed that atheism can be something that someone could ascribe supreme importance to. (see post #72)

You have therefore said that atheism is a religion.

1. You quoted some dictionary that a definition of religion is: "A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
- consumerism is the new religion"

We both agree that consumerism isn't a religion per se. But nonetheless, according to the dictionary you quoted, religion does actually mean in one sense, that "a persuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance to", ie atheism, would actually constitute a religion using your own example.

YOU HAVE THEREFORE SAID THAT ATHEISM IS A RELIGION

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All you've just told me is some religions have atheistic views toward other religions and certain matters.

Let me remind you what you said again
From post #61 above:

Someone who has no Gods and no belief system is someone we cannot class as being part of any religion. So we call them Atheists, period. A religious person can display atheist views toward another religion but not of their own so they would not be called an Atheist.

and what Wikipedia says about Atheism:

Atheism is accepted within some religious and spiritual belief systems, including Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Neopagan movements[17] such as Wicca,[18] and nontheistic religions. Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods

Therefore, Wikipedia, and I state that: "Some religions" do not "have atheistic views toward other religions". Some religious people are atheist.

Theists of a particular religion can be atheist towards any other deity than their own. So they are not atheists. But theists with limited deities. Theism is defined as only necessarily having a belief in one or more deity. Just one deity is allowed. Your Dorkins dogma is tripping you up, you individual and unique thinker you.

Now on the separate and ACTUAL point, that atheists can be religious, Wikipedia furnishes us with examples of religions where belief in deity is not needed. ie Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Neopagan movements such as Wicca.

I SAY: SOME ATHEISTS ARE RELIGIOUS, IN THE STRICT MEANING OF THE WORD: IE FOLLOW RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE AS ATHEISTS

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To be honest I'm just adding this so people don't forget at this point: "Atheism = lack of belief in God." Fr0d0, 2012.

You didn't say that here:

We [atheists] don't have a unique position on each individual deity. We just have a position on things that haven't been proven to exist, in that unless it is proven to exist we don't have any reason to act like it does.

(repeated on post #53)

Exhibit one.

You said: Atheism = lack of belief in a god/ gods. Nothing else.
vs
YOU SAY: NO!, ATHEISM IS A POSITION ON THINGS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN PROVEN TO EXIST

Like black holes, aliens, dark matter.

Also 'Scientific proof' is an oxymoron. Science proves nothing, it simply provides a way to logically evaluate evidence based on certain assumptions and arrive at the most plausible conclusion.

So your atheism seems very different to the definition I provided you with: lack of belief in god/ gods

And then you went further to define atheism thus:

Atheists don't believe in anything supernatural without proof.

To follow what you claim is the case you'd have to call every single refusal to acknowledge a deity a religious position.

Is it a religious position to not believe in theism as a whole or simply no position for lack of proof?

Based on this I would say Atheism is not a religious position, it is simply a position demanding of concrete evidence regardless of the claim.

Rhythm kindly corrected you:

Atheists can and do believe in all manner of supernatural things while simultaneously remaining atheists. They probably didn't get your memo.

To which you responded with this nonsense:

If you seriously want to use this kind of reasoning then fine. I'm game.
By that same definition Christians are atheists because they don't believe in Allah and Muslims are atheists because they don't believe in Yahweh. The same reasoning can be applied to every single religion in the world.
Well I guess we'd better call everyone an atheist now.
Anyone else get the feeling this is going to get confusing?

Exhibit 2

You said: Atheism = lack of belief in a god/ gods. Nothing else.
vs
YOU SAID: NO! "ATHEISTS DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING SUPERNATURAL WITHOUT PROOF"

Your defense: Quote the Dork.

We've had plenty atheists on here who believe in the supernatural. And how could they call themselves atheist, when to you they were clearly not atheist, because they 'believe in the unprovable'?

YES AGAIN, YOU SAY THAT ATHEISM IS SOMETHING OTHER THAN LACK OF BELIEF IN GOD/ GODS



Raphael makes the following points:

1. Atheism is a religion (correct by his own research)
2. Atheistic religions don't exist (despite proof of such presented)
3. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/ gods, "thats simply what it is, a lack of belief and nothing else" (widelyt agreed) except that...
4. Atheism is the lack of belief in anything proven
5. Atheists don't believe anything supernatural without proof (clearly disproven)


Raphael also states that he has said nothing at all contradictory, and that it's all in my imagination, and he'd like me to just quote where he has contradicted himself.

I have "lied" and that I have not shown these contradictions that I quote above from a previous post in this thread. I am bullshitting about what I've just presented again.

And you, dear reader, like himself, will be able to see Raphael vindicated by that lack of evidence above.

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God has a definition, which you have to be aware of to be able to make any decision about it. Do you understand?!

Ok then ...Define god.

Sorry DBP, missed this.

God is love.

But it's your deinition of god that you lack belief in. My definition is irrelevant to your position.

You might be interested in my definition, but you're going to disagree with it because it contradicts your own understanding. Your understanding is your position.