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Someone debate me
#98
RE: Someone debate me
Quote:And given that it is hundred of years down the road, it is easy to imagine another event causing much less suffering accomplishing the same thing.

This relies upon the question, what is the goal being accomplished, and what is necessary to achieve that goal? If the ultimate goal of all life for God is to make the greatest amount of free creatures to enjoy God to the greatest degree and glorify Him for the longest amount of time, then all sorts of things can be necessary. For example, consider the following possible scenario. God is perfect in Holiness. For one to dwell in the presence of God, one must achieve perfect holiness. If God were to create free creatures to be in His presence forever, this would mean that they would have to be perfectly Holy as perfect holiness is incompatible with sin. And if God were to create them free, then they would have the freedom to sin. When they sin, they necessarily suffering must be in the world or God would be unjust to not punish sin. Consider also the fact that an omniscient being would know all truths and comprehend everything past and present in an instant. In such a scenario, it seems hard to believe that you could know that God couldn't have a reason for allowing suffering to occur, especially when it seems that there are possible scenarios in which He could have a reason for suffering to occur.

(August 27, 2012 at 5:19 am)pocaracas Wrote: Speaking of unnecessary suffering... have you guys watched this particular movie, blood diamond?

lol

(August 27, 2012 at 1:44 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The problem of evil is emotional. When we see diseases, we wish they were all cured. When we see cancer, we want to be cured. When we see mental illness, we want it to be cured. When we see poverty we want to be eradicated.

We emotionally are against all suffering. We want it gone. And if we had the power to make it go away, we would, wouldn't we?

Yet God doesn't do this. Hence, we feel there is something wrong here.

As much as we may justify it with words, we emotionally agree with the problem of evil.

The argument maybe an argument from ignorance, none the less, it's emotionally convincing.

If we had a magic wand in our hand, we would make all suffering go away? Most of us would say yes, almost all of us, would say yes. Wisdom, greater good, etc, we really don't care for that.

This is why the argument is so strong. We are already emotionally convinced.

I think you make some powerful points. However, it is the case that not in all instances would I use my magic wand to cure all suffering. From personal experience I can tell you that if I had not experienced suffering in my life, I would be a very selfish person. My suffering humbled me, and led me to realize how I should not judge others (not that I still don't struggle with this to a degree).
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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Messages In This Thread
Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:09 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cinjin - July 16, 2012 at 10:11 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Erinome - July 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:13 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Minimalist - July 16, 2012 at 10:52 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Whateverist - July 17, 2012 at 12:33 am
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 16, 2012 at 10:17 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Erinome - July 16, 2012 at 10:18 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by FemmeRealism - July 16, 2012 at 10:21 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:32 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by skb - July 20, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cinjin - July 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Ace Otana - July 22, 2012 at 5:07 am
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 16, 2012 at 10:28 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 16, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:36 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by FallentoReason - July 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by FemmeRealism - July 16, 2012 at 10:38 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:39 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Annik - July 16, 2012 at 10:39 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 16, 2012 at 10:47 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Norfolk And Chance - July 22, 2012 at 9:21 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Rayaan - July 16, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:45 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by FemmeRealism - July 16, 2012 at 11:15 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by jonb - July 20, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Annik - July 16, 2012 at 10:49 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 10:49 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Erinome - July 16, 2012 at 11:04 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 16, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 16, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Mister Agenda - August 27, 2012 at 2:02 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - August 27, 2012 at 2:08 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Anomalocaris - August 27, 2012 at 7:10 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 16, 2012 at 11:14 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - July 17, 2012 at 12:40 am
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 17, 2012 at 12:52 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 18, 2012 at 7:31 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - July 17, 2012 at 1:06 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Faith No More - July 17, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - July 17, 2012 at 1:58 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Tempus - July 17, 2012 at 2:10 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 18, 2012 at 6:56 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Napoléon - July 18, 2012 at 6:58 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Minimalist - July 18, 2012 at 7:01 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Simon Moon - July 18, 2012 at 7:27 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Epimethean - July 18, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - July 18, 2012 at 8:06 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - July 18, 2012 at 11:18 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by jonb - July 18, 2012 at 11:57 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 19, 2012 at 12:03 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Shell B - July 19, 2012 at 12:06 am
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 19, 2012 at 12:08 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Shell B - July 19, 2012 at 12:15 am
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 19, 2012 at 12:21 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Shell B - July 19, 2012 at 12:31 am
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - July 19, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 19, 2012 at 12:53 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Epimethean - July 19, 2012 at 9:23 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Felasco - July 19, 2012 at 9:27 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Zen Badger - July 20, 2012 at 7:29 am
RE: Someone debate me - by goddamnit - July 20, 2012 at 4:06 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - July 20, 2012 at 4:37 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Faith No More - July 20, 2012 at 4:40 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Nemo - July 20, 2012 at 5:55 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 20, 2012 at 10:09 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 20, 2012 at 10:13 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 20, 2012 at 10:14 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 21, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 21, 2012 at 10:49 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 25, 2012 at 1:15 am
RE: Someone debate me - by KnockEmOuttt - July 25, 2012 at 1:23 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Zen Badger - July 22, 2012 at 6:37 am
RE: Someone debate me - by frankiej - July 21, 2012 at 11:03 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - July 25, 2012 at 10:59 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Epimethean - July 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Whateverist - July 25, 2012 at 2:01 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - August 27, 2012 at 1:17 am
RE: Someone debate me - by genkaus - August 27, 2012 at 2:57 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - August 27, 2012 at 8:38 am
RE: Someone debate me - by genkaus - August 27, 2012 at 9:33 am
RE: Someone debate me - by pocaracas - August 27, 2012 at 9:44 am
RE: Someone debate me - by genkaus - August 27, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Someone debate me - by pocaracas - August 27, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Cinjin - August 27, 2012 at 3:00 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Thor - August 27, 2012 at 10:32 am
RE: Someone debate me - by pocaracas - August 27, 2012 at 5:19 am
RE: Someone debate me - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2012 at 10:07 am
RE: Someone debate me - by MysticKnight - August 27, 2012 at 1:44 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Mister Agenda - August 27, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - August 27, 2012 at 6:47 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cinjin - August 27, 2012 at 7:15 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Mister Agenda - August 28, 2012 at 10:14 am
RE: Someone debate me - by genkaus - August 28, 2012 at 10:57 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by padraic - August 27, 2012 at 10:32 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - August 28, 2012 at 12:29 am
RE: Someone debate me - by genkaus - August 28, 2012 at 1:35 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - August 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Thor - August 29, 2012 at 5:22 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 29, 2012 at 5:32 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Thor - August 30, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 30, 2012 at 11:22 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jackalope - August 30, 2012 at 11:55 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by genkaus - August 30, 2012 at 6:12 am
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 28, 2012 at 10:52 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - August 29, 2012 at 4:41 am
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 29, 2012 at 4:44 am
Someone debate me - by Categories+Sheaves - August 29, 2012 at 5:13 am
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 29, 2012 at 9:10 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Categories+Sheaves - August 29, 2012 at 4:18 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 29, 2012 at 6:17 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Faith No More - August 29, 2012 at 5:35 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Jeffonthenet - September 1, 2012 at 9:53 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 29, 2012 at 5:44 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Undeceived - August 29, 2012 at 7:53 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 29, 2012 at 8:09 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 29, 2012 at 8:07 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - August 30, 2012 at 3:29 am
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 30, 2012 at 6:27 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 30, 2012 at 5:02 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 30, 2012 at 5:08 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by greneknight - August 30, 2012 at 5:28 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Faith No More - August 30, 2012 at 11:45 am
RE: Someone debate me - by Jackalope - August 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by The Grand Nudger - August 30, 2012 at 5:11 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - August 30, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 30, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: Someone debate me - by Cyberman - August 30, 2012 at 11:59 pm

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