Christians don't believe there's objective morality.

[greneknight]

Ho Ho Ho!!! Sir Greneknight is tickled.

I find the Fundies in this forum extremely hilarious. Some deny I'm a Christian. Others insist I am (and they refuse to debate with Christians) but they do that only because they don't dare to cross swords with me in a debate - they fear someone who hasn't even reached physical puberty!!!

Fear is what fundies always have. They always cite "For the FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".

But if I'm not a Christian, and I'm prepared to debate on the Bible, what's your problem?

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There's something that non-Christians don't know about Christians - we really don't believe in objective morality. William Lane Craig tells a huge lie when he says there's such a thing as objective morality that's immutable. That's not the teaching of Christianity as evidenced by the history of the church. Ravi Zacharias is another liar. He always gives talks in universities and he would ask an atheist student if there was such a thing as a moral law. Afraid that Ravi would accuse atheists of being immoral if he replied in the negative, the student says there is. Ravi then asks "If there is a moral law, who is the moral law giver?" Of course the poor student is no longer able to answer the question because the mike has been passed on to the next questioner.

Both Craig and Ravi are liars. That's not what Christians really believe in. We believe that morality is very much the product of culture and it varies from place to place and from time to time. This is backed up by the teachings of the church and even the Bible. There is ample evidence in the Bible that what's wrong or right at one time need not be wrong or right today.

I was on the verge of engaging in a formal debate with a Christian in Christian Forums before I realized what a rotten place that is. It's very hard to argue there. You say the wrong thing and you get banned. Any Christian who says there is objective morality that is unchanging over time is dishonest. He should know that's not what our religion teaches. And I'll be happy to cross swords with him in a formal debate.

You are not a Christian, the scriptures prove that and since you want to use scripture to debate objective morality, you must also use scriptures to prove you are a Christian.

I am able to use Scriptures to prove I am a Christian but since the fruit of the Holy Ghost (which I have in considerable abundance; woot!!) includes humility, I won't bother to do that.

You will never be able to do it, I assure you. Scriptures teach morality's objective, just because you do not want to adhere to the morality the scriptures lay out does not make them subjective. Morality has never nor will it ever depend on what you want or believe, objective morality depends only on God. Christ said that the moral laws of scripture would never change, if you were a Christian you would know this and believe this. You've come to an atheist site and claim you are a Christian and then represent their beliefs, you must be a real loon. It's people like you that give Christianity problems, the atheist on this site are honest about their position, you are trying to be as deceptive as Satan and you fail at even that.

Thou liest! Scriptures do not teach that morality is objective. Why don't you engage in a formal debate. Oh please, sum up all your courage and agree to debate with me. You don't want it to go down on record that you are FEARFUL of a 13 year old boy who's not yet attained physical maturity but who has mental maturity by the spadefuls. If I don't know Scriptures as you claim then it shouldn't be difficult to debate and we use Scriptures, is it? YOu shouldn't be trembling in fear.

I don't just claim I'm a Christian. If you have the opportunity to talk to the Archbishop and you remind him who I am, he will tell you I'm a fine and faithful child of Holy Church.

You claim I am as deceptive as Satan. You don't even know that Satan does not exist as a person and is used throughout as a METAPHOR? Oh, for crying out loud. I suggest you read Elaine Pagels on Satan. She's a professor of religion in Princeton which is a respected university in your country.

SIR GRENEKNIGHT THROWS DOWN THE GAUNTLET AND CHALLENGES GODSCHILD TO A DUEL IN THE FORM OF A FORMAL DEBATE.

LET ALL AND SUNDRY BEAR IN MIND THAT GODSCHILD HAS BEEN CHALLENGED AND WHETHER HE IS TO BE SEEN AS A MAN OR A COWARD DEPENDS ON HIS RESPONSE.

I urge you to take up the challenge and I will ask the moderators to arrange for a formal debate. Let's sharpen our swords and to the battle!

Sir Greneknight, Knight of the Order of the Round Table