RE: Another gun thread...
January 10, 2013 at 5:31 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2013 at 5:33 pm by Napoléon.)
(January 10, 2013 at 12:43 pm)Tiberius Wrote: It's relevant because the 2nd amendment was written precisely because the USA had been born through a violent uprising against an oppressive government. The founding fathers surmised that the same action might be needed again. That is why it is relevant today.
Couldn't disagree more. That amendment was written in a time when bullets took minutes to fire not seconds. It really isn't the same.
It's outdated.
Quote:Because the citizens can fight back against oppression.
So let me get this straight.
You think that the 2nd amendment enables citizens to fight an authority with the power and wealth the size of the US army. Riiight. Keep telling yourself that.
Quote:With the number of laws going around in recent years that try to reduce civil liberties, this mindset is still relevant today, if not more so.
To me, owning a gun shouldn't be a civil liberty in the first place. Just my opinion.
Quote:I fail to see how that topic is completely different now to what it was then. This is a universal truth of governments; if you have a government which holds all the power, it will become tyrannical (I have never seen a benevolent dictatorship). If a government is restricted and controlled by the electorate, liberty is maximized.
It's massively different because the times are different. Again, when the laws were made about gun ownership, no one at that point envisioned automatic assault rifles that could deal the kind of damage they do today. How can you say it is the same? Aside from the guns themselves, what about the US military. Again the notion that the general public could take on this sort of government, it's ludicrous and outdated.
If you're talking about governments in general, then that quote wasn't even relevant to this thread was it?
Quote:Are you saying there are more effective ways to enslave people than to take away their methods of fighting enslavement?
Did I say that? What does it matter? I've not been talking about enslaving anyone.
The idea that the general public can 'fight against' an oppressive government (in America and in this day and age) is an absurd notion when it comes to guns. If Americans were to fight a battle against an oppressive government all guns would do would amplify the amount of people dead. There's other ways to fight against oppressive governments than going all redneck and blowing each other to pieces.
Quote:Given the number of criminals who are killed by people in self-defense in America, I'd say this mindset is very much in date. If a person breaks into your home, they will rarely stay long enough for the police to show up, that is, if you manage to call them. If you have a gun, you can stop the criminal yourself.
Well, it's as in date a mindset as believing that Noah built an ark as far as I'm concerned.
Saying that people do think that way makes it no better or worse. You're just stating the obvious.
Having a gun makes it no easier to stop a criminal in the act, I'd like to see the stats that prove this.
Quote:How about this one? A criminal breaks into your home carrying a gun. Are your chances of survival higher if you have a gun, or if you don't? Without a gun, the criminal could shoot you easily. With one, you can shoot them back.
I think Rhythm answered this, but a gun in no way makes your chances of survival higher. I really think you're deluding yourself if you think that it is. You're equally as likely to miss and take a bullet to the brain yourself as you are to shoot anyone.
