Why would any woman want to be Christian?

[EGross]

As we read here, women in the Sudan are forced sold as girls to older men, acquired, and then used as part of the rite of marriage.

I am not certain why Jews or Christians would be up in arms over this, since that IS the biblical model.

The section of Deut. that was up for discussion in thiss thread had 4 commandments in a row, going from most sever to least severe, which is one of the 13 styles of command groupings in the Torah. It was not about rape, but about ownership of women, and the punishments for taking of:

* A woman who was already owned and acquired
* A young girl owned but not yet acquired and giving away the goods bought for
* A young girl owned but not acquired and having the promised goods stolen
* A young girl who is a virgin and not owned, but wither giving away or having the goods stolen.

(Notis a young girl who is not a virgin and not slated to be owned is not on the list. Her future value is not affected.)

That was the core discussion of those statements. It wasn't about rape, but about the status of a girl who has been sold.

This confusion often comes from those who don't understand the different parts of the marriage process as defined in the Torah.

Here is the typical Jewish wedding, modern days, according to Jewish orthodoxy:

First, the man stands under the chuppah. The woman comes thickly veiled (less orthodox have more sheer veils). The woman comes forth and is paraded around several times around the groom so that he may agree that this is the right item that he is purchasing. In the old day, this would have been part of the nisuin (see below).

Erusin - This is the act of selling of the girl. The man who wants her gives money of a certain value, based on ther "use" status, and a upon accepting the value before witnesses, the sale is binding. In modern days, the woman sticks out her forefinger and a gold ring is slipped onto it halfway, and the man recites a statement of of ownership "based on the laws of Moses". And while that ring is really the property of the father, I have yet to see the father demand it from the bride, so the ring is a gift from the father, not the groom.

There are also assholes who, after the wife asks for a divorce (a woman cannot ever divorce the man, but only the man can divorce the woman), he goes out, does erusin with someone, and returns home saying "Ok, you want a divorce? Fine! But I get everything and you get nothing!! Otherwise I will never tell you who she is betrothed to." This means that the girl can never get married or have intimate relations for the rest of her life, since she is owned. The woman will usually give in.

A man can acquire as many wifes as he can afford, so he has no such limitation. He can live his wife in the state of aguna, a sort of marriage limbo where she can never marry or have relations, while he is scott free.

Ketubah - This is a document that the purcherser signs, agreeing that he will pay the woman a specific amount if he ever divorces her, providing she commits no crime (e.g., adultery). The amount is based on her "use" status, typically, but it can be more if the husband is feeling generous. (My wife was married before, but I still went with the virgin price!)

In modern days, after the giving of the ring, the Ketubah is read before witnesses. It is in Aramaic. And this document should always be kept in a safe place, since it is the only thing that the woman owns. All other things she shares ownership, but through her husband. Also, in modern days is a secondary Rabbinical document that most Rabbis require, stating that if the woman asks for a divorce and the man refuses, than a very high fine will be taken from him. Say, $1000 per day until he relents. This is a secular document that holds up in non-religious courts. Modern Rabbis came up with it to protect women from assholes.

If the Ketubah is not signed by the owner and witnesses, then the next step does not take place. Otherwise, there is no Ketubah and in the case of a divorce, the woman gets nothing if it was invalid or lost. (If it gets lost, many women will leave the house until a new Ketubah is made).

Nisuin- This is where the owner of the woman (henceforth known as the ba'al, which is "husband" as well as "master" or "owner") takes posession of the goods. In modern days, after the reading of the ketubah, the couple will go into a private room for a short duration (the law reads "for the duration that it takes to roast an egg"). It can be longer. Nothing has to take place. They could be having a quiet moment together (in orthodox communities there would certainly not be any "You may kiss the bride", which is probably a throw-back to this. When they come out, people cheer and then the dancing starts!

So when the statements in the Torah speaks of a girl who is erusin, understand that her status is like a car - it has been purchased, but the owner hasn't picked it up yet. And as the laws in the Torah show, her having relations while in that status makes her an Adulteress, even the the owner hasn't picked her up yet to take her home. (Think Mary, as in Mary and Joseph).

In the 4th rule concerning this, where a young girl who is not betrothed is caught having relations, it doesn't really matter if she was raped or not. The fact is that the amount of money that would have been due the father on a future sale has been ruined, and so the erusin automatically takes place, and the young girl is forced to be married to a creep for the rest of her life. A Ketubah is not required because he can never divorce her. And so, for making her ruined goods, the girl is punished, and the man gets what he wanted, but at a higher price.

As for the other cases where the couple gets put to death, that would rarely ever happen because of the way that pesuli edut (invalidation of witnesses) occurs, and you will need at least two men (no women) to see the rape from the very beginning, which is difficult at best. So in the most lenient case, where she is forced to marry the creep, the creep is considered being punished for paying a much higher price than had he come to the father in the first place and negotiated a deal.

Thank God for a secular court system!