RE: The Case for Theism
March 31, 2013 at 11:35 am
(This post was last modified: March 31, 2013 at 11:40 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 31, 2013 at 11:25 am)Drew_2013 Wrote: In order for us sentient beings to exist, the information required to produce that result had to be present when the universe began to exist, it couldn't be added later.Hardly, interaction is a very useful way of "creating" novel patterns and information. We see it at play all the time. Take an A, add a B, You have AB, Same A, add the AB - AAB/or B add AB BAB - we can rearrange all of this and continue to cram them together producing a massive array of new and novel patterns that didn't exist before their interaction with nothing but an A and a B. We can do the same with just the A, or just the B.
Quote: Why would mindless forces that don't care about planets, stars or humans have such information?Why wouldn't they? We know that they do, you are entirely comprised of "mindless forces" called chemicals (we could go even further down the rabbit hole..but why?), who by interacting - stumbled upon "you".
Quote:You claim the universe we observe is what you'd expect from mindless lifeless forces that didn't intend life or sentience to exist, would you expect such forces to create life and sentience?It is, they did, and yes, I would. "Create" is a loaded word, I suppose it;s okay for now. It's unlikely that you'll be able to conceive of life without the crutch of creation so I don;t mind running with it.
Quote:On what basis would that be your expectation?The basis, firstly, that we are here and we can't find your sentient force (not for lack of looking either). We don't have to expect much, but knowing what we know about organic chemistry its readily apparent that no sentience need be involved. Tumblers in a lock drew
Quote:If the universe was purposely created to support sentient life then our expectation would be for the universe to fall within the characteristics (no matter how narrow) to allow such to occur.Why would it have to be created to support life at all? Why would life need any supporting (perhaps you didn't realize this, but the very notion that life needs supporting lands you firmly in the territory of no god - just biology) ? In any case, it isn't a matter of "if"....but, if that's all you';re going for, you're merely attempting to create a scenario in which a universe created by god and a universe not created by god are entirely similar in every observable way. You're travelling uphill in the hopes of reaching me somewhere near the summit. Seeing as I don't have to invoke an unknown, un-evidenced, unproven - and ergo baseless-assertion...I think I'll stick with -no god-.
Understand?
(I'm going to keep reminding you that you really don't mind the lifeless bit, that's part of your little assertion as well. You don;t want god to be in the company of living things..because then I;m going to ask you all kjinds of questions about its biology...lol)
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