RE: Atheism - less war?
April 23, 2013 at 12:19 pm
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2013 at 12:32 pm by A_Nony_Mouse.)
I have not seriously responded to his statements on that because he is wrong so many ways from Sunday in so few words I can't find a place to begin.
First one has to agree that Gulags with an average seven year life span is equivalent to murder as during WWII labor camps were considered equivalent to murder. Second he went after the religious hierarchy which was also against him and it is unclear who struck first blood. Third it was all started by Lenin not Stalin and Lenin gets credit for some 8 million all on his own. Fourth would a church which opposed the Tzar have been treated any differently? Should church engaged in treason against the crown be treated as Henry VIII treated them?
There are more numbers before focusing the discussion to what he is saying.
A bottom line is, in the same loose terms used towards the Nazis Stalin was worse. However there is essentially no reason to involve religion in it nor was it a significant fraction of the dead solely for reason of religion.
And to make it more complicated going back centuries there were three power centers in the Russian empire, almost like the three branches of the US government. They were the political, the secret police and the army. In war they all worked together but there were checks and balances like political officers in the army. Stalin had only the political. By head count the Jews had the secret police.
All three were constantly at war with each other. There were occasional tippings of one side over the other such as the 1930s political purges of the army and the 1950s political purges of the KGB mainly for their support of Israel after Stalin rejected the idea and Israel turned to France and England for political alignment. Their 1956 war against Stalin's ally Egypt was not good for KGB and the majority Jews running it. Jews were no persecuted for their religion but for the political support of a foreign country aligned with the West.
And that is just for starters.
Stalin continued Lenin's policy in response to the Russian Orthodox Church hierarchy's treason against the revolution. When the Tzar was overthrown all of the lands and holdings of the church were forfeit. It is unclear who started the conflict.
Not greater than the pro-god campaign of the Orthodox Church. In fact probably quite understaffed in comparison.
First one has to agree that Gulags with an average seven year life span is equivalent to murder as during WWII labor camps were considered equivalent to murder. Second he went after the religious hierarchy which was also against him and it is unclear who struck first blood. Third it was all started by Lenin not Stalin and Lenin gets credit for some 8 million all on his own. Fourth would a church which opposed the Tzar have been treated any differently? Should church engaged in treason against the crown be treated as Henry VIII treated them?
There are more numbers before focusing the discussion to what he is saying.
A bottom line is, in the same loose terms used towards the Nazis Stalin was worse. However there is essentially no reason to involve religion in it nor was it a significant fraction of the dead solely for reason of religion.
And to make it more complicated going back centuries there were three power centers in the Russian empire, almost like the three branches of the US government. They were the political, the secret police and the army. In war they all worked together but there were checks and balances like political officers in the army. Stalin had only the political. By head count the Jews had the secret police.
All three were constantly at war with each other. There were occasional tippings of one side over the other such as the 1930s political purges of the army and the 1950s political purges of the KGB mainly for their support of Israel after Stalin rejected the idea and Israel turned to France and England for political alignment. Their 1956 war against Stalin's ally Egypt was not good for KGB and the majority Jews running it. Jews were no persecuted for their religion but for the political support of a foreign country aligned with the West.
And that is just for starters.
(April 23, 2013 at 11:27 am)Dawud Wrote: So you finally accept that just as some people can kill in the spread of theism that someone can kill in the name of atheism?
Or kill to spread atheism..
Stalin continued Lenin's policy in response to the Russian Orthodox Church hierarchy's treason against the revolution. When the Tzar was overthrown all of the lands and holdings of the church were forfeit. It is unclear who started the conflict.
(April 23, 2013 at 11:43 am)Dawud Wrote: He tried to stop people believe g in God through a massive ovine red propaganda campaign.
Not greater than the pro-god campaign of the Orthodox Church. In fact probably quite understaffed in comparison.
