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Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy!
#30
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy!
(September 18, 2013 at 9:04 am)Drich Wrote: The only way she and he both survived that ordeal was with 'proof' of her virginity.
If they didn't know she was pregnant, why would they have wanted to check her virginity before marriage? Did they suspect her of being a fornicator? I doubt that, as I can't imagine that god would choose such a person to carry him to term.

And I understand that they were not yet officially married, that is in the part of Matthew that I quoted. As a breakdown, based on my understanding of what is written:

"Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph"

The act of taking her home would, as I understand it, make the marriage official. How was this looked upon at the time? Would it have been a problem if they'd slept together before he took her home, or would it only be a problem if they did not make it official? I'm thinking that if it was the former, then Matthew 1:18,19 makes more sense.

"but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit."

This part is a bit weird because of the last part. However, note that it does not say that it was discovered that Mary was not a virgin. It says that she was found to be pregnant. Now, unless they had pregnancy kits at the time, there are few ways to confirm this, such as morning sickness and a protruding belly.

So I wonder how they "found" her to be pregnant by holy spirit. Was she puking rainbows in the morning? This is stated before the part where Joseph is visited by an angel and told the truth, so it doesn't seem likely that her condition was discovered via angelic declaration. The words may be superfluous, or just another poorly-written sentence in the Bible.

"Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly."

Joseph is described here as her husband, in the very next sentence. Either Matthew is marking the passing of time or this indicates the point of view that being pledged to marriage conferred many of the rights and responsibilities of marriage. Thus, when Joseph sees that Mary is pregnant, he assumes that she has been unfaithful. If he truly knew that she was a virgin and carrying god himself in her womb, he would not fear 'exposing her to public disgrace.'

So who was it that "found" that she was pregnant through the holy spirit? It wasn't Joseph. And whoever it was decided not to tell him. Even Mary either didn't tell him or couldn't convince him, requiring the dream-visit of a heavenly creature to give him the information (Let's put aside the ramifications of the dream-angel, since that's a whole other potential can of worms). And how did they "find" this out? Checking her for virgin status when it was already known that she was pregnant doesn't answer the question, and frankly is pretty creepy.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by YahwehIsTheWay - September 14, 2013 at 7:43 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by LastPoet - September 14, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by YahwehIsTheWay - September 14, 2013 at 8:44 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by freedomfromforum - September 14, 2013 at 9:28 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 15, 2013 at 2:03 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by YahwehIsTheWay - September 15, 2013 at 11:45 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Searching4truth - September 18, 2013 at 10:03 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 8:18 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 9:04 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 18, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 11:19 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 3:40 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 4:15 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 6:43 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 18, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 10:04 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 19, 2013 at 5:50 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 19, 2013 at 9:00 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 19, 2013 at 9:25 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 19, 2013 at 9:59 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 19, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 19, 2013 at 9:40 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Cato - September 19, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 21, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by max-greece - September 20, 2013 at 1:33 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 20, 2013 at 5:17 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 21, 2013 at 9:34 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - September 20, 2013 at 6:53 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 20, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Bad Wolf - September 20, 2013 at 6:13 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Simon Moon - September 20, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by max-greece - September 19, 2013 at 4:53 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 15, 2013 at 2:11 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 15, 2013 at 2:59 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Max_Kolbe - September 15, 2013 at 3:43 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 8:29 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by NoraBrimstone - September 15, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 15, 2013 at 4:16 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Max_Kolbe - September 15, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 15, 2013 at 10:31 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Doubting Thomas - September 17, 2013 at 3:18 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 15, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Max_Kolbe - September 15, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 15, 2013 at 10:01 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Anomalocaris - September 15, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 17, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 17, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 8:08 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 18, 2013 at 8:34 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 17, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 17, 2013 at 3:12 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 17, 2013 at 10:10 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Anomalocaris - September 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 18, 2013 at 4:22 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by max-greece - September 18, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 18, 2013 at 4:47 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 6:48 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 18, 2013 at 7:38 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 8:28 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 18, 2013 at 9:24 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 10:56 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 18, 2013 at 4:52 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Zone - September 18, 2013 at 5:54 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 18, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 18, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2013 at 11:09 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 19, 2013 at 12:06 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Zone - September 19, 2013 at 6:19 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 19, 2013 at 8:24 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - September 19, 2013 at 8:45 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - September 19, 2013 at 9:09 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Zone - September 19, 2013 at 10:00 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 19, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 19, 2013 at 3:54 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 19, 2013 at 9:08 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 27, 2013 at 11:40 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 19, 2013 at 5:49 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 19, 2013 at 6:35 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 19, 2013 at 9:10 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 19, 2013 at 9:34 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 19, 2013 at 11:41 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 20, 2013 at 6:27 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Beta Ray Bill - September 20, 2013 at 6:58 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 20, 2013 at 7:02 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Rev. Rye - September 21, 2013 at 9:33 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 21, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Drich - September 23, 2013 at 8:42 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 21, 2013 at 6:29 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Airyaman - September 24, 2013 at 8:46 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 24, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 24, 2013 at 9:59 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 24, 2013 at 10:24 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Mystical - September 26, 2013 at 2:06 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 26, 2013 at 2:28 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Max_Kolbe - September 27, 2013 at 12:36 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 27, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - September 27, 2013 at 6:16 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - September 28, 2013 at 6:23 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Anomalocaris - September 27, 2013 at 6:59 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - September 27, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 27, 2013 at 8:02 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - September 27, 2013 at 8:47 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - September 27, 2013 at 6:41 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 27, 2013 at 6:51 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 27, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Anomalocaris - September 27, 2013 at 7:26 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 27, 2013 at 9:12 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 28, 2013 at 7:27 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 29, 2013 at 3:06 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Searching4truth - September 29, 2013 at 10:01 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 29, 2013 at 12:07 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - September 29, 2013 at 6:19 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - September 29, 2013 at 6:25 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - October 2, 2013 at 4:50 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - October 2, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Doubting Thomas - October 2, 2013 at 5:26 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Searching4truth - October 2, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - October 3, 2013 at 2:33 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - October 2, 2013 at 7:56 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Brian37 - October 4, 2013 at 12:59 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - October 18, 2013 at 8:04 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - October 21, 2013 at 7:51 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - October 21, 2013 at 5:19 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - October 22, 2013 at 8:56 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - October 22, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - October 29, 2013 at 11:01 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Searching4truth - October 3, 2013 at 9:02 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - October 3, 2013 at 9:30 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - October 21, 2013 at 2:03 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - October 22, 2013 at 5:49 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - October 22, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - October 29, 2013 at 11:08 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Minimalist - October 29, 2013 at 11:22 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - November 1, 2013 at 5:13 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2013 at 11:37 pm
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Ayen - November 6, 2013 at 9:14 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Tonus - November 6, 2013 at 9:16 am
RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy! - by Statler Waldorf - November 14, 2013 at 7:29 pm

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