RE: Mary's 10 Year Pregnancy!
September 20, 2013 at 6:54 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2013 at 6:57 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 20, 2013 at 5:40 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: No, it’s supported and well known, 42 authors mention Jesus while only 10 mention Tiberius. That’s over four times as many.
The 10/42 claim has been thoroughly shot down.
I won't even go into the 42 number attributed to authors that mention Jesus, some of them are highly disputed. I mean, please, Josephus is included in the 42.
But they got the 10 mentions for Tiberius incorrect by a factor of 10. oops...
The list given in 10/42 argument for the authors that mention Tiberius are:
“Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Seneca, Paterculus, Plutarch, Pliny the Elder, Strabo, Valerius Maximus, and Luke.”
Well, it looks like the list was a bit short. There are actually 44 authors that mention Tiberius, including Tiberius himself.
"The contemporary poet Horace (writing c. 21 BCE) mentions Tiberius multiple times and even writes to a military friend campaigning with Tiberius in the 3rd letter of book 1 of his Epistles. Another contemporary, Cornelius Nepos , also mentions Tiberius’ first marriage in his Life of Atticus. The poet Ovid (c. 13 CE) discusses Tiberius’ triumph in book 2 of his Epistulae Ex Ponto. Livy’s history of Rome, though the books dealing with the time of Tiberius are lost, still have book summaries preserved in later Periochae . A number of the later books, such as 138 dealing with Tiberius’ military campaigns under Augustus, provide yet another contemporary source for Tiberius. Seneca is mentioned (presumably the Younger) on their list, but a reference survives to the contemporary Seneca the Elder’s (c. 39 CE) lost historical work in Sutonius’ Life of Tiberius where the Elder Seneca writes about Tiberius’ death. Philo of Alexandria (c. 39 CE) mentions Tiberius’s recent death multiple times in his Embassy to Gaius."
"Phaedrus (c. 45 CE), who wrote Latin versions of Aesop’s fables, likewise writes a humorous tale about Tiberius and an attendant in his Aesopica. Columella (c. 65 CE) in book 11 of his De Re Rustica mentions Tiberius, as does Quintilian (95 CE) in book 3 of his Institutio Oratoria. Frontinus (c. 100 CE) makes an obscure, but nevertheless solid reference to Tiberius in book 1 of his On the Water Supply of Rome."
"There are a number of authors that this apologetic counts for Jesus, but fails to mention also wrote about Tiberius! The apologetic counts Pliny the Younger’s dubious reference to a “Christ,” but fail to mention that the Younger Pliny clearly mentions Tiberius in Book 5 of his Epistles in his letter to Titius Aristo. Lucian is listed as a source for Jesus, but it is ignored that he mentions Tiberius in his Macrobii. The apologetic even misses important Christian sources that mention Tiberius. Justin the Martyr is counted for Jesus, but it is not pointed out that he also mentions Tiberius in his First Apology. Likewise, Theophilus of Antioch is counted for Jesus, but his reference to Tiberius in book 3 of To Autolycus is not included. The apologetic even fails to connect the dots when Phlegon and Thallus are counted as sources for Jesus, because they mention an eclipse during the reign of Tiberius, that these references include Tiberius Caesar! So the apologetic is not even checking its own sources! Phlegon likewise records in book 13 of his On Marvels that Apollonius the Grammarian wrote about Tiberius, which is also not included."
"What about Tiberius himself? Unlike Jesus, Tiberius was certainly literate and a number of his letters are preserved in fragments within the works of both Tacitus and Suetonius. In addition, Suetonius even makes clear in his Life of Tiberius that Tiberius wrote memoirs that he used when constructing his biography (61.1). Thus, Tiberius himself also counts as a source for his own life and existence. How about Tiberius’ stepfather Augustus? Suetonius likewise quotes a number of letters written by Augustus addressed to Tiberius, which likewise count as sources for Tiberius’ life. How about Tiberius’ nephew Germanicus? A little known poem, the Aratus, survives written by Germanicus that he dedicates to his adopted father [Tiberius]. A speech of Tiberius’ other nephew, the emperor Claudius, is likewise recorded in Tacitus and preserved on the bronze Lyon Tablet that mentions Tiberius. Thus, within Tiberius’ own family we have Augustus, Germanicus, and Claudius as sources for him, in addition to Tiberius himself."
Here's the complete article.10/42 Destroyed
The 10/42 might be a new low in apologetics.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.