If these resident theists really talk to god..

[Mystical]

My father has terminal cancer, he's an atheist. Never once seen or heard him talk about any sort of god, whatever that is.

Drich Wrote:
first response:
When the blackness consumes him, he will cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. [PREACHING]

Fidel knows someone on his death bed who he has not witnessed, crying out to God for mercy.

I too was on my death bed, and I know when the darkness consumes you, one will cry out for mercy.

I further extended the idea that even if this man did not cry out infront of fidel, that does not mean he has not cried out thus giving fidel some hope of assureance that his Father was not automatically doomed to Hell.

So again stimy tell me what I should be sorry for?

Should I be sorry that I can speak of a death bed experience??

Should I be sorry that you think Fidel wants his dad to die an unrepentant sinner?

Should I be sorry for the fact that at some point maybe fidel may have a revelation about God, become saved and then be worried about his Father?

Should I be sorry for the fact that you are a quick to judge douche bag looking to peresecute someone who does not believe as you believe, and jumps at the oppertunity to make those who oppose your world views jump through hoops?

Maybe help me out here to understand be a little more specific.
Lemme break it down for you.

I shall be addressing what you've said in this thread which started this whole discussion, and encorporate something related that you brought to light about what (supposedly happened) in other threads.

Measles Outbreak at Vaccine Denying church

I pointed out that I had a positive Hiv test along with some flagship symptoms of full blown AIDS, and upon my follow up two weeks later my symptoms were gone and my test came back negitive. The only thing I did was pray durning that time. My doctor called it a mirical and even tried to document the case but was dismissed because 'science' was not able to classify what had happened. Well, I guess it happens often enough to be given a classification now, but still it can not be explained unles someone calls it (by faith) a mutated form of HIV.

Again God does alot in ourworld today. It's just dismissed because 'science' can not reproduce what He alone has done. and because scientist can not reproduce it, it is somehow dismissed as not being possiable.

What a backwards way to think.

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quote=Drich
I am saying if you do not think you would ask God to spare your life when face with a terrible disease like aids, I am asking you to allow me to pray that God strike you down with aids, cancer or whatever it takes for you to beg and or grovel for your life. Why? To simply prove the point that there are no atheist when you are staring down the barrel of eternity. That is how I know those 'elite controllers' were healed. Because I know they prayed. Even the ones who thought they were atheist.

There is nothing I am offering to do for you that I have not already prayed for myself. In that, a long time ago I asked God to do whatever it took, even if it meant my life, to help me see and understand Him. I now offer that on your behalf for you. Not as a curse but an opportunity to not only know yourself, but in the journey to get to know God.

Question: Did your doctor really call it a miracle or is that just an extrapolation on your part? I ask, because as an 'elite controller', you're not cleared of the virus at all---aka: healed-- because the virus is still inside you, it is merely unable to affect your immune system in the way it does with normal patients.

Listen Drich, I'm not trying to belittle your experience, I'm sure it was horrifying (although the online site for molluscum contagiosum, it states that they aren't painful and usually rectify themselves on their own. Living in the hot humid climate that you do, I'm quite certain that it's quite easy to pick up such a virus.

I'm just trying to understand why you think you have a free pass on knowing what happens on deaths' door to the point you're perfectly fine with belittling the memory and circumstance of someone with biased bullshit that you claim goes for "all the world, everyone on deaths' door, all the atheists in foxholes, anyone with a bullet flying at their head, anyone who've faced mortality, all the other elite controllers (who are statistically atheists, btw), etc etc etcetera.. And then turn around and accuse someone in bereavement of doing what you just fucking did yourself to them then accusing them of using the memory of their dying father to make a point.

How is your perception of my response any different than how I was treated after I shared my battle with a deadly virus?

You USED your father's condition as a panic stop to the conversation, and as leverage to try and dismiss everything I said. Which was based on my own observation dealing directly with death. This coupled with your response above makes you a terriable person and a hipocrite to boot.

You DID the VERY THING you Accused me of Doing!!! But your not pissing all over what could potentialy be a made up condition concerning my Father, or what amounts to a hear say account of someone elses situation.. you've pissed all over what I had to say about my own dealings with HIV. with again what amounts to a hear say account of what you think your dad may or may not be going through.

The blackness is death/Fear of death. We will all be consumed by the blackness at one point or another, therefore the qualifier 'if' is not needed as we all die or will fear death as out time on this world comes to an end.

I said 'rest assured' because no matter how devoute one is to their atheism in life, in death we all tend to want to cover our bases. Meaning there is still hope for the eternal state of fidel's father.

Oh and are you saying his dad has to be suicidal in order to not pray to god on his deathbed?

Only the truly sucidal embrace death. All others will do what they can to live. If one accepts his death, then there is a final appeal to simply cover his bases the best that he can. That is all that was said.

what is worse? failing to offer a platitude? or letting someone think their beloved Father is burning in Hell?

First of all, prove these assertions along with your assertion about half a dozen people telling you you should've died or whatever.

I was where fidel claims his dad is, and you all were all less than compassionate to my situation. (I was called a f*** liar, was told I should have died, that I should pray for AIDS again, etc.. So ask yourself why should I lead with platitudes and condolances?

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I did not treat this man's situation any worse then my own nor did I stoop to the level you 'good' people did either. I gave him the same respect as I gave myself sharing a similar situation. What more is there to give?

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Never mind how I know this to be true... lets hear some more about this thrid hand account your discussing.

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Second of all: You weren't on death's door like Fidels' father.

I will be praying that you be subject to whatever it takes to provide you with eternal life. For some this could mean a winning lottery ticket, but to the hard hearted this usally means to be broken Spiritually which usally follows a physical break in one's health. Again whatever it takes is the key here. Not nessarily your death.

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quote=Drich pid='499118' dateline='1377620636'

I am not asking for the negitive for the sake of negitive things to happen to you. I am simply offering the same prayer on your behalf that i asked God on mine. To help me see, to open my eyes, my ears, my heart even if it means my health, wealth, and over well being to do so. To do whatever it takes to break me mold me, and make me into the person I need to be, even if it means my time here is cut short.

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I am praying that God gives you the gift of an illness like what is being discussed so you can tear down the walls you put up to keep you from Him.

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Big Grin
I know what pneumonia is. I've had it 3 times. the last time I had it for 3 months, (the bug is getting more resistant to the antibotics) So that leads me to ask if your medicine did not work, or you had no access to any medcine, and you lay there dying and knew there was nothing you could do...

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quote=Drich
They do not look like they're underfire to me. Or do you not know what a fox hole is? Those guys look like they work 'in the rear with the gear' where people can still afford to deny God.

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http://atheistforums.org/thread-20532-po...#pid499150
Again those d-bags are not in foxholes.

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I am speaking to what it cost me to force change in my life. I am offering you a chance to experience what I did. I started there simply because that is what i know. In my prayer I ask God to rain down whatever it takes for Stimbo.
This does not automatically means Aids or Cancer. It simply means you must have the willingness to experience whatever it takes to change or even break your heart. I started with personal health because that is what most people hold the most dear.

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Now where would you be if there was no hospital to go to, and your condition was to drag out for weeks months or even years of slow deliberate suffering??

There is a big difference between dying relitivly quickly, than being made to sit and think about it for years all the while your whole life and relationships change.

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It's not only the physical death that taunts you. It the death of every aspect of your life. who you were all that you are is also dead/dying. So you get to spend a great deal of time mourning that as well. If you die quickly of a socially acceptable disease your legacy, lives on. Your people still stand behind and support you. If you died of Aids (20 years ago at least) You died, long before your body surcuumbs to whatever infection that winds up killing you. It is not just death that has people cry out to God. It is this slow agnoizing death of everything you are/were, and then adding insult to injury you have your physical death (probably by something like pneumonia) to look forward to.

When I went through this AIDS was a soul crushing way to die. There was no hope, at least for poor people.

I have not force anything on you. I simply offered to put you on a path that I myself have already been down.

Let me show you where I'm coming from.

You had a rough couple of weeks? Drich, I've had a rough lifetime. I didn't just "think" I was dying, I almost physically died. And so did many members on this forum. I can't speak for them, but I can say that I find it ridiculously offensive that you think that you thinking you're dying (for two weeks) is the same as dying (which is fine, go for it), but don't then expect anyone to not think you're a major douche for speaking matter of factly about what state someone would be in emotionally or physically during a time as touchy as death, even though you know little to nothing about it.

Nextly, one in 100 odds is 1% odds. I myself (counting only one of my illnesses) am 1 in a million, the other 2 in a hundred thousand. That alone is not enough to qualify a near death experience, sorry.

Assuming you speak of the truth with regards to you being an elite controller, there was surely a test that could have been performed to confirm this if you indeed got a legitimate diagnosis, which I highly doubt.. Here are some of them listed. If you were diagnosed as such once, you are still one to this day. You weren't cured, douchely friend. You're in remission.

Elite Controller Research

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According to HIV/AIDS researchers like Levy and Steven Deeks, a professor in the Department of Medicine at UCSF and faculty member of the Positive Health Program at SFGH, “long-term survivors,” or “non-progressors,” make up about 5 to 15 percent of HIV-infected individuals. These people manage to maintain very low or even undetectable amounts of HIV in their blood and remain healthy without the dramatic loss of CD4+ T cells characteristic of most patients with HIV infection. “Elite controllers” represent a special subset of this group, having HIV levels undetectable by standard viral load tests, without the use of antiretroviral drugs. Probably fewer than one in a hundred individuals infected with HIV meet this standard.


The question about defective HIV mutants is still an open one, but Levy and Deeks agree that a weak virus alone does not explain the remarkable survival of all elite controllers. “At the end of the day,” says Deeks, “I suspect that a subset of these people has been infected with a replication-incompetent virus. But, for the most part, when you can find the virus in controllers, it replicates quite well.”


In 1986 Levy and his co-researchers found that when HIV-infected CD4+ cells were placed, in culture, in the presence of CD8+ cells from long-term survivors, they stopped producing HIV. When the CD8+ cells were removed, HIV production resumed.

Levy’s work on CD8+ cells led him to another component of the frontline, innate immune system, plasmacytoid dendritic cells (PDCs). They not only produce interferon when challenged by viruses, but also interact to enhance the activity of CD8+ T cells. Long-term survivors have higher-than-average PDC counts, and elite controllers, higher still. Finding the mechanism by which they are triggered to release interferon is a second key focus of the Levy laboratory.


Although many elite controllers had clear evidence of potent HIV-specific T cell immunity, a surprising number failed to exhibit such a response. Deeks is also looking at why elite controllers have lower numbers of T regulatory cells compared to non-controllers.

They have found that the NK cells of elite controllers frequently express a unique cell surface protein or receptor that may regulate their function.


Power in Numbers: The Need to Recruit More Elite Controllers
With so many mechanisms, and combinations of mechanisms, potentially at work in elite controllers, assimilating data from large numbers of them will be crucial to make statistically significant observations. That’s why Deeks is collaborating with Bruce Walker and Eric Lander of the Broad Institute at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and a host of other scientists, health-care providers, and AIDS service organizations to grow an international consortium. Their goal is to recruit 2000 elite controllers around the world.

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Real Challenges to Support Elite Controller Research
According to Deeks, there are three critical factors required to grow and support cohorts of elite controllers. First is the willingness of elite controllers to come forward and offer themselves to be studied. Both Deeks and Levy have found HIV controllers to be remarkably generous individuals, highly motivated men and women driven by a desire to give back to others with HIV/AIDS and to find answers to why they have been spared.

With a smile, Deeks describes their generosity. “They say, ‘Sure take my blood. Sure, do a gut biopsy. Sure, I’ll undergo a spinal tap.’ And we will only do what we think is important. But it is a big sacrifice on the part of these guys. A big sacrifice. They get nothing out of it. To do it for the good of science, that’s a pretty cool thing.”

You know what I'd suggest, if you haven't already? Get going to Mass. for this controller test and actually do something for humanity. God gave you a gift, right? Use it. Because I'll guarantee you right here and now: your condescending snide antipathetic remarks on an atheist forum aren't doing shit for your god. If you really cared, you'd be donating your rarity to scientific observation because god made you 'special' for a reason.

[url=http://atheistforums.org/thread-20968-post-510857.html#pid510857][/url]
I was told I should have died from AIDS, that I should Pray that God give me AIDS again, that my whole family should die of AIDS... Where were the self righteous defenders of pop morality that day? Where was Stimbo and the verbal warnings then? Why was it ok for me to be blasted for trying to share a mirical, and it is not OK to say that a man on his death bed (Lest he is a Misotheist) will cry out to God?

I treated this situation no differently than how I was treated when I shared my HIV experience, but suddenly I am the monster.

You have yet to prove you were treated this way.

Maybe you all hypocrits should revisit some of the things you told me.

We did, and found you lacking in credibility.