(October 21, 2013 at 2:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: Josephus TF is a forgery....
Ehrman accepts both references by Josephus as valid; so fail.
Quote: Without Eusebius' great fraud there would be nothing at all.
Again, this is not accepted by historians. You’ll believe anything won’t you?
Quote: BTW, Josephus was not a contemporary of your boy. Philo, who was, never heard of the fuck, either.
Nice try at moving the goalposts, you simply said 1st Century Jewish writers never mentioned Jesus, and yet Josephus was a 1st Century Jewish writer who mentioned Jesus. Fail again.
(October 21, 2013 at 7:51 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: The Talmud contains a 4th century entry about A Yeshua (not necessarily THE) who was executed after a 40 day trial. This particular Yeshua had five disciples but none of the names are familiar. He was politically powerful with ties to the government, which the Gospel character never had. Yeshua was a common name and this doesn't seem to be the one you're looking for.
This fails for two reasons. Firstly, the objection that is being refuted was that the Jews would not execute anyone on the Eve of Passover, so even if this is not the same Jesus it still refutes that claim. Secondly, although certain references to Jesus in the Talmud are debatable this one (Sanhedrin 43a) is widely accepted as referencing the Biblical Jesus by even the most skeptical scholars (i.e. Lauterbach), so again you’re arguing for an extremist position that actual historians do not adhere to.
Quote: Same problem with the Josephan reference. Yeshua bar Damneus is not the Gospel character.
Again, even skeptical scholars such as Ehrman accept the Josephus’ references as being valid. You’re going to have to do better than simply touting your own biased personal opinion as being the accepted position. Get to work.
Quote: Pliny doesn't mention Jesus, only Christians.
This is incorrect. Pliny states that Christians refused to worship the emperor and would only worship “Christus”. Not only this but historians also use Pliny to support the historicity of Jesus because if Jesus were simply a fabrication we’d expect Pliny to mention that Christians were not even following the teachings of a real person, and yet he does not. These Roman sources all held great contempt for Christians and yet not a single one of them even bothers alleging that Jesus never really existed.
Quote: Seutonius [sic] doesn't mention Jesus, only a Chrestus who was causing problems in Rome in the mid-1st century.
That’s also incorrect; this Chrestus that Suetonius mentions is the leader of the Messianic Jews who were expelled from Rome by Claudias. This event is also supported by Luke in the Acts of the Apostles. Of course Jesus of Nazareth was the only Chrestus that Christians followed so we know who Suetonius is referring to. The onus is upon the extremist to demonstrate that there was in fact another Christ who was being followed by the early Roman Christians when they were expelled from Rome.
Quote: only showing tampering
Demonstrate tampering took place.
Quote: and being so late and oblique that it doesn't even mention Jesus by name.
If it did mention him by name I am sure it’d conveniently be because of “tampering”. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes that allied forces “tampered” with the footage of thousands of murdered Jews in the Holocaust. Ridiculous believes give rise to ridiculous rationalizations.