How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?

[John V]

Well, then you and I are fundamentally different. If I felt murder was occurring, I wouldn't say that some murders are acceptable, even to prevent others. I'd keep fighting for all murders to end. There is no one small group I'd compromise on.

One can compromise and then keep fighting. In the meantime, a lot of murders have been avoided. Makes sense to me, but there are a lot of Christians who agree with you and won't compromise in the slightest. Theoretically you and they are correct. I'm just being practical.

In any case, this is a compromise that wouldn't work. You can't end abortion- all you can do is make sure that the women having them are doing it less safely.

You can't end murder either. You can just reduce it by making it more difficult. Same with abortion.

What I'm saying is that your statement that such suffering of babies might be NECESSARY for some people is flat-out horrible. Yes, I know some people get off on the suffering of others, and that some people when confronted with suffering grow through watching it. But to insinuate that that might be a GOOD REASON to allow suffering is, as Esquilax said, monstrous.

I disagree. We think of, for example, compassion as a good thing. Right now you think you're more compassionate than me on this subject. But think about it logically - you can't be compassionate if no one ever suffers. by allowing suffering, god also allows compassion, and sacrifice, and a bunch of other traits which we consider worthy and honorable, but which wouldn't exist without suffering in others.

But that's not what's happening with your compromise, either. You are saying that you would ALLOW the one to die in order to save the rest.

Yes, that's the case in both scenarios.

*Edit- and I'm waiting for you to point out to me where I said that having a baby with a painful early fatal genetic disease is evil.

OK.

John has just demonstrated how unimportant and insignificant the suffering of children and women is to the religious crowd. A woman endures a pregnancy and birth to have a baby whose entire existence is pure pain, accompanied by crushing medical bills, putting the rest of the family on the back burner, and unbelievable personal grief. And then the child dies. These are the people who oppose abortion to prevent all this needless pain and Obamacare to help a family through it if they do decide to have the child. And they then tell the family that it's insignificant, and to pray.

It's evil, John. What you are espousing is an evil mindset. Another reminder that if John's god turned out to be real, I'd go to war against it. No earthly genocidal dictator has ever been as bad.