Christians worship a Devil

[Esquilax]

God is loving, but he is also just and he does have wrath. Before Adam sinned he knew no death or suffering, but afterwards that all changed. Any of us who have sinned also share in the sin of Adam.

How can you begin "god is just," and then go on to say "you are being held responsible for a crime you did not commit"? How is it that you can square those two premises in your head?

God was perfectly just in his actions taken in the old testament. The people he killed were going to die regardless. It's not like they were innocent.

None of the people were innocent. Not one baby. Not one toddler. Not even the one day old, barely alive at all. Not innocent. At all?

Would I be justified in killing a baby, Lek? If not, then why are you holding me to a greater moral standard than you are your god?

Incidentally, it's not just killing that we're talking about, here. Sometimes it was kidnapping virgin women as slave brides, or the prizes of war. Was that just too? Oh, and killing all the cattle in the fields just because they were the enemy's, were those animals sharing in the sin of Adam too?

Look at how the ancient civilizations lived. They worshiped idols and sacrificed their own children and make war on other nations.

And so the solution you find is just, the punishment for these actions that they deserved... was for another tribe- who from the perspective of those ancient peoples were worshiping their own idol, by the way- to come in, sacrifice all their children (sans virgins, of course) to their god, making war on their nation in the process?

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that age old christian moral tradition, the catch cry of the just and the good everywhere: "Two wrongs make a right."

If any of those who died were truly after God, then they are in a better place now enjoying their reward.

And so the moral way to accomplish that, for these people you've just admitted had been forgiven their sins, would be to have them die peacefully in their sleep, not be brutally murdered over the bodies of their families and loved ones by an invading horde of people for whom their deaths weren't even justified. That's something god could have done, being all powerful.

Oh, and we're still forgetting all those virgin women who were truly after god, who spent their lives serving and being raped by the men who murdered their families. Cheery, no? Definitely just!

We're all deserving of the same thing and there is no way to repay it.

There's also no debt, because nothing we could possibly do could ever incur a single cost to god. I just find it interesting how you and people like you are willing to put god's baseless hurt feelings above the lives and eternal suffering of countless billions.

Tell your deity to nut up and put his big girl panties on, for fuck's sake.

God showed his love for us in that he became man through his son Jesus, who lived the perfect life and by his death paid the debt that we as sinners could not pay.

And yet a court today would call that a miscarriage of justice. Why are our courts held to a superior moral standard than your god?

Jesus suffered God's justice and wrath for us. We can all avoid eternal death by our faith in the one who saved us, not by living a good life. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If we don't we have eternal death. His love is shown by his sacrifice for us, which was for us all. We can accept it or not. He won't force us. It's you're option love him or not.

Is there anyone here who actually buys this? "Believe in me or go to hell," but he won't force us? I mean, come on.